Discuss Board Meeting

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Raw transcript[edit]

Mark A. Hershberger: That requires some approval.

Mark A. Hershberger: Right So what do we need to talk about there.

Eric-Jan: yeah so I thanks mark, I wrote, I wrote you a.

Eric-Jan: an email.

Eric-Jan: Since the wiki base is on behalf of.

Eric-Jan: The media key stakeholder group is on behalf of is now ticking the boxes and first priority is to turn an option for a meeting room of the venue into into a reservation and I wrote you a small email at 1030 European time.

Eric-Jan: So.

Eric-Jan: And what I would like is your approval on on the venue for the meeting room, so that we have a date and the venue, which is the most important thing in this phase.

Eric-Jan: I wrote down some of the venues characteristics.

Eric-Jan: And the price that we are now that we now have.

Eric-Jan: I.

Eric-Jan: I found Brian he just we just talked about this because Brian was so helpful.

Eric-Jan: of explaining the the budget to head and the excel sheet yet for the Houston nw calm, which I am happy to use, and so the question is, can we approve. The.

Eric-Jan: The amount.

Eric-Jan: For this, for this venue 40 s and w calm.

Mark A. Hershberger: So what's the amount, because I did not see the email me the.

Eric-Jan: price of the yet the price of the venue is is for for us a 40 accommodation, which is a meeting room.

Eric-Jan: Including facilities like high speed internet.

Eric-Jan: Like.

Eric-Jan: A lunch like hot and cold drinks during the day is for $70 per person per day.

Eric-Jan: and

Eric-Jan: I think and.

Eric-Jan: Brian supports me in this, that this is a reasonable amount for a most modern and centralized located venue.

Eric-Jan: In the town of breda.

Mark A. Hershberger: Just just out of curiosity for.

Mark A. Hershberger: Some reference of size how large is what's the population and brighter.

Eric-Jan: yeah good question.

Lex: wiki base so Allah and his wife.

Eric-Jan: had quite some effort at quite some trouble in finding a good venue breda is a midsize for us as a mid sized town.

Eric-Jan: Of about 250,000 people.

Eric-Jan: With a railroad.

Eric-Jan: railway station.

Eric-Jan: And, and the really Center the cozy Center so 2000 200,000 plus inhabitants.

Mark A. Hershberger: And you said 17 euros per person.

Eric-Jan: 77 770 yeah.

Mark A. Hershberger: Okay yeah.

Eric-Jan: That is for a very nice central spacious meeting room, including.

Eric-Jan: The.

Eric-Jan: facilities, you would need during three days.

Mark A. Hershberger: And we're looking at what about.

Lex: 30 people.

Eric-Jan: 40 people yeah we have let's say minimum of 25 and a maximum of about 50 people I would say, we expect.

Eric-Jan: let's say we expect senior with a delegation, we expect quite some Dutch people, of course, we would expect our German our German friends.

Eric-Jan: possibly also French people.

Eric-Jan: breda it's very well.

Eric-Jan: Set is.

Lex: Good to be.

Eric-Jan: Good good to reach, so to say.

Eric-Jan: And the venue is directly adjacent to a railway station with good connections to.

Eric-Jan: Ship all good connections to to Dusseldorf and other European countries.

Mark A. Hershberger: So the cost would then be about 30 $500 man.

Eric-Jan: yeah.

Eric-Jan: You could you could you could you could.

Eric-Jan: multiply but you could also say it's about it's $210 for three days per person.

Mark A. Hershberger: Ah.

Eric-Jan: So death could form the basis of a rate for a professional and the rate for a student, but I wouldn't like to discuss that now, first I would like your approval on the venue itself.

Mark A. Hershberger: let's vote comes up yes now.

Mark A. Hershberger: All right, there you go it's unanimous.

Eric-Jan: it's good, fair for.

Eric-Jan: yeah I also wrote down some numbers of the past right of pass rates, but I will come back on that with a proposal later.

Mark A. Hershberger: Okay.

Mark A. Hershberger: So yeah is there.

Mark A. Hershberger: The cost seems reasonable to me, you know, from what I know how does it sound to you Cindy.

Cindy: It sounds reasonable yeah yeah yeah.

Cindy: You were saying also lunch.

Cindy: yeah.

Eric-Jan: lunch is included in this rate yes.

Cindy: Okay, how about breakfast.

Eric-Jan: No breakfast would be I think related to the hotel room this venue also offers hotel rooms, but I will come, I will come with proposal for that later.

Cindy: Great yeah a lot of them would have breakfast with hotel yeah cool.

Cindy: I haven't get your idea. How much.

Mark A. Hershberger: How much did it cost in Paris lex per person.

Mark A. Hershberger: per day, do you have an idea.

Lex: Let me see.

Eric-Jan: I have the FM w calm.

Eric-Jan: 2018 and 2017 rate I have I don't know the exact the venue if annual prices, but the end the attendee fees, I do have the attendance fees.

Eric-Jan: But that is not an answer to your question on what the venue cost.

Mark A. Hershberger: Right.

Mark A. Hershberger: But I was hoping likes. would know just.

Lex: It was, it was only on elaine niamh which was this platform that you were actually registering.

Lex: it's not on the page anymore.

Lex: I think okay at most 200 euros.

Lex: Between 102 hundred.

Mark A. Hershberger: Okay, so with if.

Mark A. Hershberger: This sounds a little better than that, I guess, maybe.

Mark A. Hershberger: i'm okay.

Cindy: You were saying we've got a minimum we have to pay a minimum of 25.

Eric-Jan: know what does at the moment we do not have a minimum, and I will try.

Eric-Jan: Again, and as well yeah.

Cindy: Okay, good.

Eric-Jan: All right, of course, our estimate is important for these people yeah.

Eric-Jan: And, well, I would say within within a month or within a month or two, we would have a better estimate than we have now that people can start subscribing on the on the sw com.org site, from now on there's already some names yeah yes.

Cindy: How many attendees did we wind up in person in Houston.

Bryan: Just closed it but hold on a second sorry, are you going 17 and five or something.

Bryan: We had no seven right.

Bryan: 17 total.

Cindy: That sounded that's what I was thinking.

Bryan: You had 12 regular attendees and five freelancers.

Eric-Jan: I would, I would aim for a little bit more for breda in this fall I would aim for a little a little bit higher.

Mark A. Hershberger: I hope so.

Mark A. Hershberger: um so what what's the next decision, we need to make here what's the next.

Eric-Jan: Next decision is the one of the next decision would be the rates for professionals versus the rate for students.

Eric-Jan: But I will come up with a request for the.

Eric-Jan: next meeting.

Lex: Okay.

Eric-Jan: And it will be in the line of Houston and.

Eric-Jan: And an FM w calm fall in 2018 but the Houston rate well the dfw COM rates have been historically a little bit higher than the S and w calm rates.

Eric-Jan: So Houston was in the range of 450 for a professional and 150 per student as the S and w con rates have been between between 102 hundred euros a show let's say between 110 dollars and to $20 for a professional and.

Eric-Jan: And sorry for students and $200 for a professional so.

Eric-Jan: yeah it historically the sw con rates have been lower.

Eric-Jan: Even seem to even half of the MW con rates.

Eric-Jan: But as.

Eric-Jan: pounders. yeah.

Mark A. Hershberger: That just shows you how lush and opulent it is to live in in the states, you know we're so.

Eric-Jan: So expensive yes. i'm.

Mark A. Hershberger: All right, do we we did discuss yesterday MW sake and wiki apiary in the CSP meeting um.

Mark A. Hershberger: was I who else was there in this meeting.

Mark A. Hershberger: Oh okay yeah so we did discuss that is there anything else, we want to discuss today you brought it up Eric john.

Eric-Jan: yeah, I just wanted to give you an update on where we were a wiki based stands.

Eric-Jan: Perhaps that is old information but.

Eric-Jan: let's see.

Eric-Jan: We are taking care of the migration for wiki APR and MW steak.org.

Eric-Jan: And we'll be finished before June 30.

Eric-Jan: mark and Cindy.

Eric-Jan: are informed yesterday and we are doing a migration free of cost and our employee Jesse is estimating now the hosting costs after June 30.

Eric-Jan: I do not have the estimate, I do not have the estimate ready at the moment, but I will share it with you, once Jesse has has done this, so that is the estimate, for I think aws.

Eric-Jan: Or is that a true hosting who's going to host this mark.

Mark A. Hershberger: I believe, with the base is going to host.

Eric-Jan: Right so that's our.

Eric-Jan: that's our host of true so.

Mark A. Hershberger: yeah don't really.

Eric-Jan: yeah I will give you the only once we have it.

Mark A. Hershberger: yeah, the only thing I would say is you know it would be good to have an update next week around Wednesday about this as well, I just so because we have this hard deadline at the end of June, so you know.

Mark A. Hershberger: i'm getting nervous.

Eric-Jan: yeah so we're on this mark there's no need to get nervous, I cannot, I cannot prevent you from being nervous, but as far as we're concerned we are we're on it it's under control.

Eric-Jan: And it will be taken care of before before the deadline of June 30.

Mark A. Hershberger: Well, I will make sure that I get an update next week around Wednesday um is there is.

Mark A. Hershberger: Is there anything else that we want to discuss about the wiki apiary MW steak.

Bryan: There, there is an item that lectures brought up, though.

Bryan: it's in the chat.

Lex: But that's not connected to wi K period.

Lex: know if if mark was asking that.

Mark A. Hershberger: What or.

Mark A. Hershberger: What item, did you oh you brought up this coordinator yeah that was on the on the fits the next item on the agenda.

Mark A. Hershberger: So do you want to talk about that briefly.

Lex: yeah if the wiki everything is done.

Lex: Okay, so the idea was to establish a general secretary role at the at nw stake to take care over several things that we've been talking to about.

Lex: For the last six years and the two links, you have there The first one is a preliminary brain dump of mine about what this could entail but already with flesh on the bones first suggestions what to take which actions to take with.

Lex: For suggestions and the second one is the fundamental building block of our existence and because we want to help people use media wiki and that's.

Lex: done through helping them how to use it, so that involves use cases which involves functionality and that should be.

Lex: Of course, developed made sure that it works in conjunction with all the components, it should be documented and tested.

Lex: And this what you see that link, there is an automatic parsing including screenshots of a functionality, I have packaged up in page exchange packages that's, by the way, one of my.

Lex: First suggestions, is to have everything up sorry yeah is to have everything in page exchange packages and I have started with the first two want first to under my github account.

Lex: But I would say that any functionality that we as MW steak promote and curate and Stewart should be provided as these packages now.

Lex: Imagine, even if you ship or provide an extension, it would always involve some wiki text or in most cases it's about anything that is end user facing.

Lex: would involve wiki text so you would have to ship some page content and there we need a mechanism and I just want to go for the first making mechanism that is available and that's this page exchange.

Lex: by your own Korean who act which actually works pretty well.

Lex: So.

Lex: On the left, you see an automatic parsing of the steps that are involved with the use cases and this file so.

Lex: Now the steps Brian if you click on the link to need a wiki pages Fo top right there.

Lex: And then you go to sign into the Cypress folder.

Lex: And then eat to eat and then specs.

Lex: And if you make that a little larger So the idea would be we provide the framework to use.

Lex: Cyprus commands to run.

Lex: The Cyprus tests now i'm I know that that we can eat our foundation does not use Cypress, but is it is phenomenally simple so even a.

Lex: An extension.

Lex: developer, could you know, create some tests here that men could be parsed automatically into user documentation at least rudimentary.

Lex: And what's really interesting Of these, unlike number 19 and number 16 you see the screenshot so while, while the tests run these screenshots are automatically taken automatically saved automatically uploaded and linked in the.

Lex: In the documentation that was automatically provided but let's go back to the services coordinator.

Lex: I think, can you yeah can you make that a little bigger, please.

Lex: Okay, so if we scroll down a little bit my first suggestion is to add this page exchange functionality and these are the first three page exchange packages and I suggest they all exist, except the last one, the second suggestion is to have this test your use cases against your wiki service.

Lex: I would.

Lex: say we define a shortlist of let's say 10 extensions and then I will make the effort of documenting all the 20% of the use cases that 80% of the people use, and then we can come up with an mvp scope of use cases that we provide then, if you scroll down a little bit.

Lex: And it becomes slightly philosophical the third suggestion is the official MW state message I want to craft.

Lex: or compiler shortlist of arguments that we could you know use as the the official message, while we promote a lot, why we promote me, yet we keep so i'm just them i'm just collecting there and the fourth suggestion is that I could take care of the MW steak main page and turn it into.

Lex: Something more digestible for the end user.

Lex: And this is just a suggestion of some aspects, I would like to have surfaced at the top level.

Lex: And then, if we scroll up a little bit.

Lex: There was some modalities on this roll.

Lex: Up to the very top.

Lex: So you see i'd say the mission is to manage the public Member services and content, we want to ensure the coherence consistency, relevant and up to date notice.

Lex: All of this, especially the coherence, because we have so many aspects of m w steak is scattered around you know your.

Lex: website, we keys people, so I want to take the moderators job to actually unify that a little bit and then manage MW steak or guess the public.

Lex: channel and managed MW steak or as our internal one I prefer not to be involved in fundraising whether I will remain on the board of directors can be decided the policy is that I.

Bryan: i'm sorry keep going.

Bryan: to lean on that.

Bryan: And i'm voicing it but.

Lex: OK OK.

Lex: And yet some policies what my rights are so I can reach out to Members and contributors, and we would have some time at conferences to you know.

Lex: Not brainstorm but to take decisions and report to the board of directors bi weekly as we do now and at some point, you know I would suggest a probation period of two months, and then you can see how happy, you are with my work and after that.

Lex: I would suggest we introduce a remuneration, especially also because if it's not paid it's not worth anything in the real world, you know.

Lex: In religion and fairy tales, it is in the real world, at some point, so it also urges the case for all of us if there's money involved.

Lex: And the third point would be, we could limit this position to some time period and then put it up for re election and my job would be to spend these 12 months to prepare the the workplace for any potential successor, if I don't want to continue or not i'm not allowed to so that's the.

Lex: brief.

Lex: description.

Bryan: And just one question you know we I talked about this with you a little bit lacks but you know one probably question in everybody's mind is what you know what's your suggestion, at first, for your payment for the rule.

Lex: Well, you know, I have to be realistic if I come up and say it's $5,000, then we can start discussing now, and of course it's a chicken and egg problem.

Lex: The better my work, the easier it is to raise to get members and Member fees so honestly I mean you know, even if it's at the beginning, something symbolic that's Okay, because we have to be realistic.

Lex: So a couple of hundred dollars would be fine and then we would have to.

Lex: Now figure out what the metrics are per month because I prefer not to do it 100% of my time because i've got other things, to develop but um let's say 50% of my time.

Mark A. Hershberger: So um I I, I appreciate your presentation and I thank you very much for that, but I have two comments, the.

Mark A. Hershberger: You have this right now under data specs on github is it is it possible to move it over to the MW state.

Lex: Of course.

Lex: You mean the package.

Lex: You mean did page exchange packages.

Mark A. Hershberger: Whatever you haven't yes, I believe, yes.

Lex: yeah that's, the only thing this here is on MW steak org on the managed wiki yeah right.

Mark A. Hershberger: i'm the, the only the only other comment was you know I believe you said something about religion doesn't value money to same way, but even even you know the Catholic Church hadn't built into, so I think.

Lex: that's not.

Mark A. Hershberger: That shown to be not true um anyway.

Mark A. Hershberger: Those are my only two comments, I really like what you talked about here, though, so.

Bryan: So i'm on board as well, I mean I kind of got a realization of what it was, and so, from my perspective.

Bryan: You know, we as MW steak have been talking about you know benefits that we can bring to the Community, and one of them that we've talked about a lot is you know curating a list of extensions that.

Bryan: As a group we define is enterprise ready or useful or recommended, or whatever you want to call it, and you know.

Bryan: We still really haven't you know delivered on on that, but this actually takes it to a more fundamental level where not only shows that it's recommended, but you can demonstrate that you know when someone downloads that extension it's actually working.

Bryan: And so you know it allows all of us, I think, even understand that an extension is useful to understand how we can bring all of extensions, up to a more current version and check to make sure it's working, and I think that's probably a pain point for most everybody.

Bryan: So I really like that I think the only comment I have is, I appreciate, you know this is as far as being restricted from the role of this it's not going to find, but I think you know we as in w steak need to you know, try to work on this again to make sure we can do stuff like this, but.

Lex: yeah what I mean by that is of course I would be involved, but I would be involved preparing the dishes but not selling them over the counter.

Lex: Because I want to concentrate fully on now, you know, reconciling what you have in mind what I have in mind and then really.

Lex: realize it implemented so of course that know fundraising mean fundraising means I don't want to call up companies and ask them to join yeah I will not be the one preparing the material that is used by the people who call up the companies to ask them to join.

Lex: For the time being, and you know for the next 12 months.

Lex: that's why it.

Mark A. Hershberger: makes complete sense to me, yes.

Mark A. Hershberger: But I also like to cross out on retire from board of directors, I I that's my thoughts as well.

Lex: That was just to have a clear, you know reporting relationship.

Lex: I, I have no problem to I don't I just don't want to judge my work myself.

Markus: So I like I like the proposal in general in it's great that you willing to do this let's.

Markus: was also going to cover it on the fundraising but you answer that the retire from board of directors.

Markus: I guess that's a good governance practice, so I know we all like to relax and we all think he's he should be on board.

Markus: The way I know it from other organizations is that the EG is part of the board, but has low voting rights so.

Markus: So, as in the functional can add on most most of the research fellow dd can join the Board has suggestion and talk rights can propose decisions, but has the voting rights, and there is the possibility to.

Markus: He said that to to ask about because you know, in terms of governance on it, I don't think it makes sense as like said for him to decide on the continuation of his own contract that's that's.

Markus: A participation.

Markus: And exactly yeah So do I think what we should do is take a look at the Bible says that is already included somehow.

Markus: In then come up with a good solution for this.

Markus: creature choose yeah that's good work.

Lex: Cindy and Eric, what do you think.

Cindy: We discussed this little bit, the other day, and I think it's great I am looking forward to your participation in this, I do not want to lose you from the board of directors, although I do understand marcus's point, and so, but I don't I think that that doesn't have to be an immediate.

Cindy: Consideration I think it becomes Messier once there is renumeration.

Cindy: But yeah I think we can jump off that bridge when we get to it.

Cindy: But yeah I think this is a great i'm really excited about the possibilities that it presents.

Lex: Okay Eric.

Eric-Jan: yeah yeah well you know for me tech from a technical point of view is difficult to to judge, but I fully trust you on this.

Eric-Jan: And I agree with.

Eric-Jan: Which cindy's perspective, but I I am on board and i'm supporting you in this lecture.

Lex: Okay, thank you.

Lex: And Marcus.

Eric-Jan: Trust on you guys and girls from I prefer the technical analysis and the and the impact.

Lex: yeah and regarding the technical issues Marcus Marcus not mark but Marcus remember, we have this discussion about six weeks ago I think on this.

Lex: Extension certificate aspect.

Lex: It sort of.

Lex: diluted itself into the landscape again.

Lex: So I would like to resume that discussion, and especially have your opinion on some of the technical proposals I make here and, of course, also by Cindy and mark, who I know are seasoned programmers and developers.

Lex: Especially on the choice of page exchange and, later on, also Cyprus but, at the beginning of would be page exchange I was also making heavy use of canasta now, as I have already informed.

Lex: Cindy I meticulously writing down all issues and subjective subjective user experiences that I have, I mean the smallest hiccup.

Lex: and writing it down and I just you know i'm not claiming and it's it's a mistake and initially it could be my misunderstanding, but if it is my misunderstanding i'm an average mind.

Lex: And we are for the average minds, so we have to solve that so just to let you know what what kind of quality of work, I want to.

Lex: Deliver it's also a lot of time that you have to spend there, but if we organize it well, it will accelerate itself, you know at the beginning, we it's it's a big it's a big work involved.

Lex: And, but the first tools i'd like to have and Marcus we don't have to discuss that now, but i'd like to.

Lex: split and maybe also with Cindy and mark and whoever actually wants to be involved, but it's just some technical issues on this page exchange inclusion on MW steak org.

Lex: And, especially on the Cyprus setup, but I just wanted to join this meeting here with the first chunks of flesh on the skeleton and not talk about you know I have this in mind, and maybe one day I can show you something so would that be okay Marcus if we could.

Markus: Of course sure.

Markus: Okay, maybe we should set up calls.

Lex: Actually, you know, since summer is coming up, I might pop up to vegans book.

Lex: If you're That was my my plan for the last two years, but, for obvious reasons, with difficult.

Lex: But honestly, if you are.

Lex: And let's say in July, if I could come and see you in July, you know you can school.

Lex: and be extremely well prepared and we can just rush through a couple of decisions and then go to the book and discuss the rest.

Markus: Of course yeah let's do this.

Cindy: I was going to ask is that the view out of your new office window Marcus.

Markus: yeah that's the backside my new office in front of me is the Danube, so I can see ships.

Cindy: that's why you have to turn your camera around, I want to see that.

Markus: The upside down so.

Cindy: it's okay.

Markus: yo yo.

Markus: Can you see the.

Markus: upside down.

Lex: yeah yeah.

Markus: It wasn't just produced so.

Cindy: nice to have.

Markus: But obviously I was totally focused on this concept I didn't see.

Cindy: That.

Markus: hey can I can I ask one more question bring up one more topic it's really super fast.

Markus: There is a board Board of Trustees and.

Markus: I was contacted by the EFF combat is this.

Markus: organization that handles the affiliates and they were asking for a representative from MW steak.

Markus: To participate in that court rejection process and to cast the vote from so essentially what we need to do is, we need to name one person.

Markus: Oh, and the one person I was looking for actually just.

Markus: So my suggestion was to name Eric young.

Markus: reach out to him afterwards CDs going to do it.

Bryan: Can maybe bring.

Bryan: out as a text me or rejection.

Markus: In between now yeah so I don't know how hard these deadlines are but over the next few days need. Okay.

Markus: So.

Markus: To be honest, I don't want democratic but I don't think remix change for every service difference.

Markus: But I think we should participate in that process to be part of that ecosystem.

Bryan: It makes sense, so maybe I just send send him out an email or whatever, to make sure he.

Bryan: gets on board okay.

Bryan: and

Bryan: I just have one more thing to add for lexus thing I think if it makes sense i'll take an action to just read through.

Bryan: The bylaws to see what it says if we're if there's any gotchas in there and and I believe it would work as long as lex refuses himself from any votes that affect that role, but but i'll check.

Markus: Okay.

Lex: Unless i'm not criticized as Who was it the Minister of Justice by trump who recused himself from the.

Lex: What was that miss ah.

Mark A. Hershberger: This is the the prosecute the.

Lex: yeah but who.

Lex: what's his what's his name.

Mark A. Hershberger: His name is a Alabama guy that was his name I forget his name.

Lex: Who recused himself and was trashed by trump.

Mark A. Hershberger: Right yeah.

Lex: that's why I know the word recusal.

Lex: Otherwise.

Lex: Okay, but are you in general in a I mean do you like these ideas.

Mark A. Hershberger: Yes. Okay.

Bryan: yeah the other recommendation I have is if we do vote on it, I think this would be a good vote to try to ensure that we have the full board, instead of just a quorum and you know the boat, I believe, will check about would not include your vote mike's.

Lex: Okay, so look I gotta say I gotta prepare more material for in two weeks.

Lex: More flesh on the bone to not stories, but things that are done just outside of the playing field, and then we can move them in your proof.

Mark A. Hershberger: yep and Jeff sessions was the guy's name.

Lex: There you go Jeff section.

Mark A. Hershberger: Attorney General anyway.

Lex: The journal, gentlemen.

Lex: Okay.

Lex: Okay, thank you bye.

Markus: bye see you. bye.