Discuss Board Meeting
Cindy: Now, everybody quiet.
Markus: Because everything so on the record for future.
Markus: Future trials.
Markus: I just read that mark has some trouble joining soon.
Markus: So I wonder to be having the agenda for today, I think so.
Markus: So, Brian and I discussed a few things about the bylaws which might.
Markus: Be things we can discuss.
Markus: So first dry and found that our bylaws mentioned a charter.
Markus: which we don't have.
Markus: That is a mysterious document.
Markus: which seems to be required for incorporation.
Markus: There are two options for.
Markus: Oh, am I was keeping the agenda i'm sorry I didn't want to do that I just fill in the gap for.
Eric-Jan: Marcus I thought you're gonna.
Markus: Okay, so we are currently at.
Markus: attend to that was what I was saying, but Cindy do you want to talk about code of conduct first.
Cindy: um I guess we don't have a beta here.
Cindy: I did, I have to admit I delayed, a few days before getting started on that, but reach out to Chris kerner yesterday.
Cindy: asking what his recommendation was for who at wikimedia foundation legal to speak to about the code of conduct, and in particular the COMP the question that came up, I guess, during our board meeting last week, which is.
Cindy: You know, it does do we have any legal exposure, considering that we are small and do not have deep spot deep pockets, we certainly don't want to take action against somebody because of the code of conduct and then wind up getting sued.
Cindy: So I asked Chris who he spoke to so the way.
Cindy: The legal team is currently.
Cindy: arranged the trust and safety, which is responsible for things like the code of the wikimedia code of conduct.
Cindy: and actions based on that is under the legal department so Chris recommended speaking to Patrick early, who, I am not familiar with, but I reached out to him yesterday and have not yet heard back to get advice on and I copied aveda who's who's.
Cindy: Leading the Code of Conduct effort.
Cindy: So I have no trouble you know report backwards i've heard back, but hopefully he'll respond to both me into beta.
Cindy: And that's it for code of conduct.
Markus: Wonderful me good to hear things are somewhat moving it's good.
Markus: Okay does anyone have any remarks and code of conduct.
Markus: Okay um, so I will then continue about the bylaws issues, so one thing the Bible says this mysterious charter.
Markus: Since we are a small organization and both Brian and I do not think it makes sense to have those major documents in color.
Markus: We essentially suggest that we just amend our bibles and remove the word charter wherever it occurs on the.
Markus: Only thing we both are not sure about is this is there any legal requirement to have a document, called the Charter, if you are incorporated, I personally think be so small that.
Markus: Nobody will kill us as an organization, because we don't have a child, and if somebody requires a charter than we renamed bibles to chart and we have one.
Markus: But that's a very pragmatic approach.
Markus: But does the so our suggestion is to not have a charter, but only if bylaws and remove all mentions of charter from the bible's.
Markus: One quick.
Bryan: update from from our talk yesterday I wasn't able to talk to.
Bryan: My friend that's a lawyer about it well, I did that he doesn't know anything about formation.
Bryan: Information so but.
Bryan: It sounds like from just a little web research, I did that Articles of incorporation and Charter are kind of synonymous and, and so our articles of incorporation.
Bryan: Had kind of three requirements and write down like what we're doing and are that what we use for that, and this is when we.
Bryan: Originally incorporated and we use a smoker guard or whatever they were as a law firm.
Bryan: It the the statement was to contribute to the development of media wiki by fostering communication and coordination of media wiki developers operators and users and other media wiki improvement efforts so that's part of it.
Bryan: As far as the articles of incorporation if indeed articles of incorporation and charter, one of the same.
Bryan: And then, just as opposed.
Bryan: to identify the board members, the full name.
Bryan: For names of them and then the business location so. I think.
Bryan: We still have the same.
Bryan: idea, and the only thing is, we could just add in a wiki.
Bryan: charter or articles of incorporation and just add those things that we used in the formation and then you know, in the bylaws that points to it or i'm still happy with just removing mention of the Charter, nothing matters.
Bryan: Legally, I think it only matters before the formation again talking about.
Markus: So, so I think the only thing that we have a location and applicable law be to have that in the bylaws as well as the vision and purpose activities, so those two would be the only thing that's missing is the mention of board members of the list of board members.
Markus: which I would not like to see in the bylaws because i'm changing that requires a board member vote and changing that talking.
Markus: So I don't know that is an unnecessary organizational overheads so.
Markus: If you could I think what we could do is, we could amend by laws and point to generic place say at nw state where a list of current board members it's just listed and that's what we need to do anyway, so that would be one way of getting a trust is the section and stuff.
Bryan: So keep keep the name keep all references to charter or scrub it and then just point somewhere, you know add a new line in the in the current bylaws to the board members.
Markus: Now, given what you just said that it only consists of these three articles.
Markus: I think we might as well, create a page like create a charter on.
Markus: Again, and maintain to take out one into like an indication acquitted law and vision purpose and activities from the bylaws copied them to a charter page at the number of the board members and. That.
Markus: sounds like a reasonable plan, and then we are safe so.
Bryan: i'll do that.
Markus: Okay um does anyone on the port agree to this. Yes, okay.
Markus: Okay, so second thing is, we have a requirement of an annual meeting, which also supposed to vote on the board members and.
Markus: And also start this rotation process we have on the board so.
Markus: Basically, what we suggest is take one of two options.
Markus: The current situation now is after understand that we are eight board members at the moment and we are eight ordinary members of ended yesterday.
Markus: So, having a vote on the board members which then decides how long each of us can stay on the board is somewhat nonsense doesn't make sense in my so we basically we have two options, based on what we expect a membership to develop, so one option would be.
Markus: To have a annual meeting some what in, we have to have it in this fiscal year, so we have time to December.
Markus: Now, typically an annual meeting also has to approve the report and the final report of the last fiscal here in the last activities.
Markus: That is why I think it makes sense to have an annual meeting somewhere in the first half of the year, because then we get reports of the last year and we can approve them saying in five years, or three years.
Markus: So, if we take this as granted that we want to have the annual meeting early in the year.
Markus: We are facing a situation where, when we do the meeting, now we have a meeting where people just on each other, because only ordinary Members can become board members, so we will vote with one more for each other, and we have like an equal work.
Markus: So my suggestion is basically to.
Markus: Go ahead in two ways I would do an annual meeting early this this year in March or so and would call that a transitional.
Markus: Meeting, so we would also see this board as a transitional word because none of us was voted by Members into this board so.
Markus: And our purpose would be to for the next year to vote to to go towards a regular annual meeting because we, in the next year, we hope that we have more than eight members, so we can have.
Markus: An ordinary boat and we can kick off this ordinary process so in the vitals it says the two board members with the most votes will serve for three terms, then.
Markus: In the rank of votes and number two will serve for two times two years and stuff and, as I said, I don't think that makes sense to have that book now, so my suggestion is let's.
Markus: Think of this year as a transitional year have an annual meeting rather early so we still have the situation that all of us are members, so we fulfill all our duties just in one of those board meetings we have we call it anyone meeting and that's it.
Markus: And in the next year we start that official process with rotation and ordinary bolton's.
Markus: The other option would be so just you have an alternative if we think that our membership develops, where we could also say in this year, we have an annual meeting in November, because we only required to have it once a year, and we have more members, and then we kick it off, but.
Markus: keep in mind that we want to have the next annual meeting close to the reports we publish so the next meeting would have to be half a year later, or so, so that would probably.
Markus: bring us out of scheduled with the yearly rotation of portland so I personally would like to see an n meeting in in March.
Markus: I think it for the next year, it will not be hard for us to provide the fiscal documents that are required and the annual report for the Foundation by March.
Markus: We can then approve them have both in in this year we we consider our old as a transitional word to ramp up that to bootstrap that process.
Cindy: I second that.
Markus: sounds great.
Markus: yeah so I guess, then the immediate follow up task is to plan our annual meeting for somebody in March.
Markus: If you want to do want me to do that, I can I can take on that task.
Markus: I don't want to take off any work for take away any work from you, Brian so he feel like.
Markus: You haven't natural.
Markus: Rights to organize this, then you can do it, but I can pack into at least to the paperwork the organizations that.
Bryan: Have you great Thank you.
Markus: Wonderful okay so next agenda point is at stake membership.
Markus: I don't have anything to say.
Mark: I was thinking you know hey.
Mark: it's I look hey I, as I was looking at this.
Mark: The agenda from before I saw we had on there acquiring new members and acquiring new sponsors and I wanted to talk a little bit.
Mark: I wanted to get your thoughts basically.
Mark: All of you what you thought about how you go about acquiring new sponsors and talk about other things, and I think that's an important bit to talk about.
Mark: anyone have any any ideas of what they think we should do as far as acquiring new sponsors easy when have ideas that they just go ahead, there.
Eric-Jan: I think we like there's often work about in March, April of last year, we made, we made it we made a great time together that has been improved about more or less.
Eric-Jan: So everything is everything that they're, the only thing that's she'd been faced with the credit card processing.
Eric-Jan: And then we could we can get going, all of us right, so we love, because we have a short list of low hanging fruit of Members.
Eric-Jan: So it's just a matter of installing the fans were favorite and there and start approaching in your own way there's a format for that or meals for that everything is in the everything has been prepared, I would say.
Eric-Jan: Okay, although it's it's quite a while.
Mark: um you mean along while they've been prepared or.
Mark: yeah well to do. yeah.
Eric-Jan: No problem for me to make them build with all these documents and how to approach it a different target groups, we have low hanging fruit of his office members, etc, etc, I would say until they're.
Mark: All right.
Cindy: away there's still issues with the.
Cindy: credit card processing that are preventing us from moving forward with that I.
Mark: don't think so um again, we need to you know we really need to run through all the scenarios which we have not done a lot of thorough testing there so.
Mark: that's probably what we need to do.
Mark: So I guess it sounds like what we could do is have some testing on that.
Bryan: So we need to find a few testers for different types like individual Members and corporate to.
Mark: The individual Members in corporate, I believe, is all working it's the I.
Mark: We rick we ran through this with Marcus in fact.
Mark: And Marcus What was your experience, I mean besides after after we got the problem resolved What was your experience.
Markus: It was good, so the only thing I can't, I can tell you is.
Markus: So I did I first registered as an individual Member I had some trouble, but then finally with your head, I could do it then.
Markus: It wasn't possible to register as a corporate Member um but after you you guys made some changes and cans guys.
Markus: It was what I can say is if the process if I will start like vanilla account, it will run through because it might be that I had some traces in the database of reading.
Markus: On that I don't know skipped across a book that might be there if you start with a bonded outcome so that's, the only thing, and I think we should probably.
Markus: test that.
Eric-Jan: That that makes him what do we market with.
Eric-Jan: What is that markets with What do you mean with text that text what.
Markus: test so so.
Markus: My registration was in three four steps I registered and something broke, then I continued registration, but I don't know if I start from scratch, it would.
Markus: still run smoothly and that's what I don't.
Mark: So I can we what what I think we should do, then, is put it back in test mode, so you know we can have these fake credit card transactions and then.
Mark: It would be good if it was not me because I would you know I know a lot of stuff so i'm just.
Mark: i'm not going to see a lot of the individual problems um and then get you know.
Mark: let's get Bernard to check to test it.
Mark: And then you know go through it and see if you can become a corporate Member.
Mark: I believe that's what we're trying for here right.
Markus: Here yeah.
Mark: And so.
Bernhard: I mean I I still have to actually.
Bernhard: register as a as a personal Member, first, I guess, so I haven't done that yet, so this is a real life examples I will do that with my credit card, and you know.
Mark: yeah go ahead.
Mark: Be you you're quite welcome to do that and that way I don't have to put in test mode which i'm you know okay go for it yeah okay.
Mark: um Okay, so I guess we'll hear back from Barnard about that next week.
Mark: Anything else.
Bernhard: I have a question actually I don't know if this has been discussed.
Bernhard: Besides, offering memberships and probably sponsoring, is it possible for us to offer just donations.
Bernhard: So if I mean the process is the same, you know I have five bucks here or 10 bucks I want to donate it to nw steak I don't have any bills nothing attached it's just goes to an account, where it says donate here or something that legally possible for us.
Mark: It is possible, technically technically it's possible because we do have a fundraising page created on there.
Mark: That would be another good you know, for us to test the workflow there um but yes, technically, it is possible for us to do that.
Bryan: One other maybe not requirement but nice thing to have coming up, would be to you know automate a list or even manually do it at first, but capture the list.
Bryan: of members and and corporate sponsorship, I know a few people that have considered joining it as a corporate sponsor have been interested in who else is a part of this.
Mark: right that that is a huge event, something we could do manually right now, we could do it manually, but it would be nice to have a special page where people have not opted out, could be you know listed.
Bryan: I can start it manually, how can I get a data dump or just information.
Mark: Let me look at people who have paid and see if we can get that out of the authorize net thing.
Mark: I think that's it.
Mark: So next week, we have a if we can meet again we have basically the start of this list which you just talked about Brian.
Mark: And I won't have to get you that, then we have Bernard coming back with his experience on that on on the past is there anything else that we need to report back about next week.
Bryan: Not next week, yet, but city has one item in there for media wiki releases.
Mark: Oh yeah um do you want, should we talk about that next week, or do you want to do that now Cindy I mean we.
Cindy: I will give a.
Cindy: I will give a very brief introduction now since it's nothing that we can resolve at this point anyways, but I wanted to at least let the board know what's going on, so.
Cindy: There, a question came across my email.
Cindy: there's discussion now about how to how media wiki releases are done right now within the Foundation so probably most people here know that at one point in the past mark and Marcus did the releases and I think did a fabulous job of doing it on a you know regular basis.
Cindy: And then that got pulled back inside the Foundation.
Cindy: For reasons i'm not real clear on except for it seems like what I was told.
Cindy: It was that the Foundation didn't want to be paying somebody to do something that they could do in House as part of their regular course, but the problem is, is that it didn't become anybody's job and so there's a ragtag group of volunteers that.
Cindy: That come together to put the releases out and we're sort of trying to stick on a regular schedule, but it didn't always happen and then cove it happened last year and.
Cindy: So the responsibility for releases is sort of shared between my team.
Cindy: We since we're responsible for most of core.
Cindy: You know when we're sort of ready for release to go out, but then there's a couple people who volunteer their time Sam read James forest or.
Cindy: The Kingdom odell who actually do you know go through the work of actually producing the release but it's not part of their job description and and there's no clear.
Cindy: set of responsibilities or.
Cindy: authority as who does this, and when so last year with coven we pushed back the release a little bit because we wanted to get a few things into the release because it was an lts.
Cindy: And so we wanted to make sure that especially stuff relating to the stable interface policy that you stable interface policy went into the one dot 35 lts release.
Cindy: The this new discussion about this came about last week because folks at the commedia Deutschland reached out to us because they're now.
Cindy: we're going to add a deck to each line is actually supporting wiki base as a third party product, and so in a way that the wikimedia foundation does not support maybe wiki is a third party product look at media Deutschland actually is, as part of their strategic plan.
Cindy: Supporting third party use of wiki base and they want to tied wiki based releases to media wiki releases and so they want the Foundation to commit to a.
Cindy: Regular release schedule, so that when they announced that they're going to come out with one dot 36 of wiki base that.
Cindy: Media wiki comes out at the same time, all of that background, probably more than you even needed to know.
Cindy: To say that right now we're again investigating inside of what I have been suggesting inside the Foundation.
Cindy: And wanted to make sure before it goes very far you know i've said it to several close colleagues, I think that the media wiki stakeholders group should take over media with the releases.
Cindy: I do not think that necessarily we will be in a position where the Foundation will pay the stakeholders group so i'd like to know that the stakeholders group is.
Cindy: willing to do this as part of their what they deliver to the Community, I think it would give us, you know certain legitimacy and.
Cindy: A role to pet play play and also perhaps more reason why people would want to become members and have a say in the media wiki releases, so I wanted to rate, this before the board, before I go too far with telling too many people.
Cindy: That, I think we should just we were my foundation hand should see the releases to us to the stakeholders group.
Cindy: And and take them over going forward I don't know that this lever fly, because there are there.
Cindy: The problem is, is there folks in the Foundation, who still want to have the control.
Cindy: Right, you know they want to have the say it's just they're not really fully resourcing it and so we're inserting the sort of ambiguous middle ground right now so i'd have to convince them that that that they still would have some they would still have to be.
Cindy: Some interface the stable interface policy could be part of that.
Cindy: And a way for you know the Foundation to still have some same releases without actually being the organization that makes them.
Cindy: And this is third party releases and it would become completely decoupled from the the ci CD the continuous integration and continuous deployment process that happens with the media wiki train and putting out a new release to Wikipedia everything.
Cindy: i've done.
Mark: So i'm in i'm in favor of this, I think it makes complete sense it after all the media wiki stakeholders did start as a result of that work that Marcus and I were doing.
Mark: So you know I think this makes complete sense to me are there Is there anyone who sees a big problem with this.
Markus: or anybody else who makes it.
Cindy: might be a good idea.
Markus: I think.
Markus: Generally speaking, I think it's a good idea, and, as you said, it gives some ways to to the stakeholders.
Markus: I think.
Markus: Before we do this or commit to anything they would be, it would have to be a clear idea of communication, so when I just I didn't get the last sentence of you Cindy about decoupling on blocks decoupling the internal release train from like public reduces because I think they called.
Markus: Decoupled right.
Markus: that's that's.
Markus: When we were released managers back then that in that part is was not too hard, because we basically.
Markus: When when in Wikipedia and you'll be immediately keep version came out, which is one of the beauties so we covered that completely and.
Markus: Decoupling it would mean that we would have to keep track of say lts changes within the Foundation, which we do not have access to and stuff so.
Markus: I think that there needs to be a clear clear understanding on on foundation side as well as a stakeholder side, what is the interface so when can we start to release yeah.
Cindy: yeah and when I.
Cindy: When I say decouple I don't mean a couple of that sense that we're running different versions of the code.
Cindy: yeah we still have a set the the common thread is that we're still going off of the same get repo it's it's got the same code in it and we're branching at different points but off of the same trunk i'm when i'm saying decoupling.
Cindy: You know they currently number their releases like the current where I think we're at 136 wf.
Cindy: 129 20 w F 29 right now, they don't need to use the third party release number one dot 36 as part of their.
Cindy: ci CD pipeline effective, we could even just you know use get hashes to represent, you know places at which you know releases happened either third party or media with you, so I was using the word decoupling in a slightly different sense.
Markus: Okay, another question is.
Markus: So I would assume that, if we take on that task of releasing that also help us get some financial stability, because that might be an incentive for companies to donate.
Markus: On the other hand, we definitely need to make sure the releases happen, otherwise we will be people will not take us seriously, so I was wondering.
Markus: As a really a first thought of a way of taking a grant to ramp up that release transition.
Markus: So until we have that you know additional donations for media vicki releases and because we need to make sure it happens on a regular basis, we probably need to pay someone.
Markus: We should think about some kind of intermediary grant that helps us get that personal that two three persons on until we can cover that comes out of our own pocket so that's one idea for.
Cindy: A positive reasons lately, and I was also thinking of the grant.
Cindy: What is it isn't there granted like coming up relatively soon.
Cindy: I hadn't really been tracking it I.
Markus: Just think it's good.
Cindy: But yeah I agree, I think that a grant at least to start things is a good idea, and I think it makes sense for it to be a grant I don't think we should have the I think that the Foundation paying the stakeholders group to do this would remove some of the incentive for them.
Cindy: to want to hand it over but but a grant to get it off the ground, I think, thanks.
Mark: um as far as cost to get this done I don't think if.
Mark: Marcus and I did a lot of work on documenting all the steps that need to be done i've done a lot of work on automating a lot of that stuff a lot of that has been automated completely.
Mark: By foundation I don't think there's a lot of manual work left to do on the on the release process um.
Mark: So I think that the cost as far as a grant I think.
Mark: grant would not have to be that big I don't think.
Mark: Just because, of course.
Markus: i'm thinking more in terms of know if that's the correct word but scrutiny, so I remember that I had like sweat on my fingers when I hit that release button every time it was.
Markus: You know my pressure lit up because you know it's a it's a publication that has huge effects and few few 10s of thousands of people will react to your email, so that is not something you do with two glasses of wine at 11 in the afternoon in the evening so. Maybe.
Markus: Mike, we should not tell the dark secrets of the period.
Mark: No, no, I I that it That is very true did it is a very visible.
Mark: sort of thing and it which, which I think is something that we need, but it's also something that.
Mark: It does it does have a lot of anxiety and stuff going along with it, that hey you know you're responsible for this thing that other people are using now so yeah.
Cindy: hey and I would agree wholeheartedly that if we do do this, we need to do a good job with it, we need to make sure that we.
Cindy: Have releases absolutely on schedule that that they work that we you know, so it has to be something that's done well The other thing I wanted to mention that.
Cindy: I did make a plug at the end of our meeting with commedia Deutschland for the media, with the stakeholders group, not with respect to the releases, but I, you know, I would like to see that the third party wiki based community.
Cindy: become more active, you know I think we should have you know relationships there.
Cindy: You know and have the two.
Cindy: The two communities, be able to be one.
Mark: So um I know there is a Community third party Community for wiki base because i've.
Mark: Some of the wicked the media wiki people i've worked with have really been more interested in wiki base and interfacing with them, then actual media wiki stuff um what what does that look like from from your point of view, what you see.
Cindy: I just hear I keep hearing mention of it, I know that most of their most of the people that are involved in that Community are in the glam Community galleries libraries, archives and museums.
Cindy: And you know that's really the weird they've put their focus, but I think that the third party wiki based community can actually be far larger than that.
Cindy: They are also do focused on federation between the different wiki bases and wiki data.
Cindy: So it seems like they have regular meetings I tried to get invited to one at one point that was it.
Cindy: They seem a little bit insular let me put it that way, and so it may take a little bit of work on our part to.
Cindy: convince them that it's worth them talking to us.
Mark: um so I know a guy in the Netherlands who's very interested in wiki bases a researcher um I may be able to get in contact with him about that as well, so i'll see what he's doing.
Mark: yeah but it, it was mostly like you said glam actually the people I was looking at where art researchers, which I consider a Jason to that list or tea, but you know Jason um but yeah.
Markus: I still to know some people from wikimedia traveling is that also worked with vicki pace, so I can also try reach out to them.
Markus: Either Cindy if.
Markus: You remember who you talk to have the database Community maybe.
Cindy: I I have an extensive email archives, I could figure it out, but I don't.
Markus: ever be cool, because then I.
Markus: Could skim them and see if I have some if we have combinations and we just you know targeted same question from precise.
Cindy: sounds good, I will look, and I will send you the names that I spoke to.
Bryan: Estimated effort required, like every time.
Cindy: Where you asked me about the people within the.
Cindy: wiki base that i'd spoken to or the ones that.
Markus: I know.
Cindy: I spoke to it Wikipedia Deutschland yeah.
Cindy: Less than less sick and their their product manager samantha.
Cindy: are the ones I spoke to last week.
Mark: What was your question about Brian.
Bryan: i'm just trying to figure out what's the estimated work, effort to do the releases like I mean if if it's super critical.
Bryan: You know, should there be at least two or three people that know how to do it and then they're taking like is it two hours a month or what's the time that they're actually spending.
Markus: yeah I think.
Markus: that's five years ago, but I always planned for hours to do everything.
Markus: As I said, I worked incredibly slow then double check everything and it was always good to have mark as a backup or when he gets released, he is a backup on to be able to quick fix stuff.
Markus: So that's desperate we did to be multi multi release as marketers we are.
Mark: A little bit we did monthly releases, but we also we made a point of doing major releases like.
Markus: Six months right so so it's basically, I would say some things between four and six hours per month to do the actual release, but then you have to maintenance working, you have to preach that stuff and maybe a men things, and you know.
Markus: mitigate list of funnel extensions and whatever is there is involved.
Mark: So I would say that that begins to sound more like four hours a week.
Cindy: there's a process also of deciding where you cut the release and what tasks, you want to you know if there's something that's pending do you want to get it into the release and so there's a little bit of product management as well.
Bryan: So timing wise were the four to six hours a month or four hours a week.
Markus: Well, I would think if we take on that task, then we want to do it good, then at least four hours a week, is something we should consider as.
Mark: Okay, well, I need to wrap this up now we're 15 minutes over about so I it, I think we got the stuff that we need to talk about with Cindy I think you got that discussed right.
Mark: We want to discuss that more next week or I think you should probably follow up but there's other things we have to discuss for next week as well.
Cindy: Are we are we going with a weekly meeting cadence at this point.
Cindy: I actually.
Mark: I think we're actually getting stuff done and.
Mark: yeah I think it's great being shorter um and we do have enough to get done if you all think it's too much, let me know and.
Cindy: For now it's good, I think.
Mark: yeah but shorter meetings more often works very well for me um.
Mark: Anyway, so next week and we'll i'll send out an invite shortly.
Bryan: And really quick if anybody wants to join.
Bryan: there's that link for gathered town up there.
Bryan: We can do a quick little DEMO of a different platform to.
Bryan: communicate on maybe have conferences on probably this one wouldn't be the one for conferences, but if you click on that link before you exit.
Bryan: You can take a look.
Mark: Alright, thanks.
Eric-Jan: I will, I will join you.
Cindy: yeah i'm gonna join for a few minutes to.