Discuss Board Meeting
Bryan: agenda we have nw state Oregon Yuri hosting and code of conduct MW state membership and.
Bryan: Brian Marcus to work on.
Mark: So Marcus you should be back.
Mark: So you want to talk about hosting a little bit I I talked with Brian about hosting yesterday, I believe, was it today before and.
Mark: He said he would like to get on you know, make sure media wiki stakeholders is a little bit more solid footing, before we start paying becoming responsible for any ongoing costs, which is not a bad idea um so Cindy you're the one who said that.
Mark: Right, so the one who wanted us to.
Mark: Move along.
Cindy: yeah I had, I had a meeting about another topic with Brian Davis a couple weeks ago and, in the course of that meeting I happen to mention something about the media wiki stakeholders group and I pointed him to MW steak.org and.
Cindy: And he was like Oh, you know, remembering that we were running that on Wikipedia cloud hosting.
Cindy: And mentioned that they are running out of IP addresses and we're using one of their static IP addresses and since we are now a money you know, even though we're nonprofit a you know we've got memberships we've got money coming in.
Cindy: And they are have are constrained.
Cindy: They he would prefer that we not be using their IP addresses for both MW state.org as well as wiki aviary you know he wasn't like.
Cindy: offer anything yeah exactly, but he expressed mild annoyance at the fact that we were getting the getting free benefit of their hosting services.
Cindy: Especially if we are now a membership organization taking in fees.
Cindy: And it wasn't he said, the issue is not bandwidth at all.
Cindy: or resources it's really the IP address.
Cindy: Because they have a limited IP address pool right.
Mark: And that was, I think the question Brian had he was like you know I can go over to aws and get an IP address so maybe we should Brian I we mentioned this before I think Sunday but Brian also mentioned, you know, maybe we just set up a proxy over there yeah do it that way.
Cindy: And I don't know.
Cindy: The technical constraints of that solution, but that seemed like that good.
Mark: that's good.
Mark: You have a proxy you know you get the free tier.
Mark: aws That gives you at least a year for free um.
Mark: I that's one way to do it, I mean.
Bryan: I mean it sounds like my only concern was that I didn't and it's just my opinion you know the rest of you guys can comment, but I was, I was hoping that be kind of financially secure.
Bryan: Before we took on responsibility so that would be you know we we pay.
Bryan: wiki based solutions for the work that they've done we have enough.
Bryan: In the bank that you know we're covered for a few months, and we have worked on getting membership, so you know there's it's not like a worry that in three months, we have to do something drastic or we can't pay for our aws subscription.
Mark: know these are these are very that's a very wise position to be financially secure before we take on any financial.
Mark: obligations. So.
Mark: I am not always a wise person i'm just letting you know that that is a wise physician, I can see that is a fool.
Bryan: Oh, I will say my wife, she couldn't over here and now it'd be very proud of me is this is.
Bryan: A call for me.
Mark: Yes, I think.
Mark: I think that is the entrepreneurs entrepreneurs spouses point of view.
Cindy: we're all proud of you.
Eric-Jan: Yes, we're.
Mark: um Okay, so does that.
Mark: it's something to keep in mind and there's something we want to move towards do we want to set goals for you know when we're rated think about being more.
Cindy: The IP address solution is that what do we know that that's actually doable and what cost my like that seems like that would be the lowest cost option right is that you know you buy an IP address for $10 a year, or is that a.
Cindy: dollars a month.
Bryan: If you use it on a.
Bryan: life easy to instance it's free.
Bryan: As long as as long as you're using one of their they call elastic IP but, but if you don't if you just reserve one in your use a proxy or whatever else it's it's basically like $3 and 50 cents, a month.
Cindy: it's not too bad, but obviously money we don't want to spend if we don't have to.
Cindy: But it means that would be less and it's not going to.
Cindy: In that case, it's not it doesn't depend on the traffic, in other words it doesn't get more expensive, the more people that hit the IP address yeah.
Bryan: So the you know if we have like a goal, or whatever i'm saying, like in two months, we would take taken over, you know so we'd be financially ready.
Bryan: As a nonprofit and then take it over, I think, maybe we'll just be easier to you know migrated to whatever cloud hosting provider, we choose versus trying to do a fixed between you know, or maybe if it's going to be longer than that then we decided to do the. IP. proxy IP shuffle or something.
Mark: So it sounds like we could set a goal of saying you know in two months let's let's what in two months, we have a goal of moving to our own hosting.
Mark: If if we meet a certain threshold which I guess the threshold would be.
Mark: Well that's the part I want to get cleared up here is what the threshold would be.
Bryan: Without anything else inside out say the goal would be having paid any outstanding obligations and having you know enough that we can proceed like maybe four months, out of.
Bryan: We have for our credit card processing and projected you know cost for the hosting we don't have an issue I don't know, maybe four months is too short but.
Bryan: Some amount of time that we agree on.
Mark: That makes sense that gets us to six months from now um.
Mark: So yeah then, and then we just go another six months and yeah anyway.
Mark: yeah that sounds fine to me what, what do you the other people here think.
Markus: sounds very reasonable to me.
Markus: I mean, if you want to play totally saved and you would bind it to the.
Markus: period of termination so if we have like termination period of one year, we should be able to finance on year.
Markus: But as we are as an entrepreneur, you know that you have to take some risks at something so if, like half an hour half a year would be.
Markus: just fine.
Mark: I think it well, we know that hey we think we can make it another six months, and if we can't then we'll just file for bankruptcy and run away.
Mark: I can't believe I just said that okay um.
Markus: it's on the record.
Mark: Yes, I see.
Mark: Okay, so Okay, so can we go to the Code of Conduct when.
Mark: Brian yeah okay um so send you in a veto, do you have anything that you want to talk about their.
Evita: Not much update really uh I just we I heard back from cindy's contact and got some insight, but I guess the next step is actually establishing a committee and getting a place for them to submit it just an email.
Mark: um who was.
Mark: Who was the contact that you talk to you.
Cindy: A mirror Sarah donny who's the Chair of the Wikipedia the code of conduct, the committee for the code of conduct for technical spaces for Wikipedia.
Cindy: And so I emailed him and he wrote back and he did not so I still have a question I don't need to do right back to him again.
Evita: yeah I wrote back and asked him, you know what.
Markus: Like rather than.
Evita: about people who want to submit a anonymous sneak i'm not i'm.
Evita: Right report I haven't heard back so okay i'm thinking that we should not up that should not be an option if.
Evita: you're submitting and you should be able to identify yourself to the committee, just to the committee.
Evita: So we can take action, because.
Cindy: I think that makes sense, I think it's hard to act on anonymous complaints.
Cindy: The one thing he said that concerned me was.
Cindy: And I can't remember the exact wording, but that.
Cindy: All of the members of the committee are legally bound to protect the confidentiality of anybody who submits a complaint and that, of course, you know as soon as you hear the word legal you start thinking oh crud What, then, is our legal position if somebody.
Cindy: You know if somebody makes a complaint and either we don't act on it in a way that they are happy with or.
Cindy: That, whoever they make a complaint about is not happy with the complaint, are we opening ourselves up to some sort of legal.
Cindy: Legal exposure there you know and wikimedia has high priced lawyers, but we know.
Mark: That may be something that you can ask the.
Mark: A we can media.
Mark: Legal if they could back us up on, I mean because that's kinda isn't that kind of what they do, I mean I don't know.
Cindy: Well, I, since we are a official affiliate whatever the.
Cindy: wording is that might give us some standing for that, but i'm not you know, like that would be the only reason why I would think if we didn't have some sort of affiliation relationship I would think that they'd have no obligation to protect.
Mark: us right.
Cindy: But maybe the affiliate there is some.
Cindy: You know.
Mark: Right, and of course I mean, of course, if we don't have anything to do with them before just a random organization can't just go to their lawyers and say Oh, please help.
Cindy: Can you help us you.
Mark: know but yeah I think.
Mark: I think that that's an option that we I think if y'all could ask.
Mark: If that's an option, you know.
Mark: Because otherwise, they do not see this being very tenable.
Mark: The whole.
Cindy: yeah if I recall correctly, the trust and safety committee who, which is.
Cindy: The umbrella group that.
Cindy: manages this process, I believe they've moved into the legal department and.
Cindy: yeah if you want to reach out fine or i'd be happy to bring some of my contacts to.
Cindy: Okay cool i'll see if I can reach out to a couple people and see.
Cindy: If I can get an answer.
Mark: I mean that.
Mark: That makes sense, what i'm saying, though, is if if.
Mark: If this is a legal thing you know you brought up all these legal issues if that's the thing I don't see how we can continue with this.
Mark: code of conduct.
Mark: at all if we don't have some.
Mark: Things there.
Cindy: Oh yeah and and I would also want to whatever we just wind up creating for the code of conduct in that case we should probably run it past wikimedia legal before we approve it.
Bryan: Is it does it matter like if we. Are we.
Bryan: are going to be sued if you don't have any kind of conduct.
Bryan: And just run or if we have one that's shaky.
Cindy: I don't know.
Mark: I think we could be, I think.
Mark: I think if we are in a situation where we're hosting events and we don't have a code of conduct and someone you know says Oh well, they didn't do anything to.
Mark: You know, protect me from being harassed.
Mark: Then I think that that's a problem.
Mark: Whereas if we have a code of conduct, then we can say well you know this person we have this.
Mark: it's like arbitration.
Mark: We have a we have a method is scheme of doing here.
Mark: So let's follow them.
Mark: it's a way of saying you know.
Mark: If you have a complaint.
Markus: We have a process for.
Mark: um and.
Markus: let's go through this process if we don't go through the.
Mark: process, then of course you know, and we have one then that's a problem.
Mark: But if we don't have a process, and someone comes to us with a complaint and there's nothing we can do that, I think that leaves us really open to you know.
Mark: I mean i'm not a lawyer i'm just.
Markus: have to go.
Mark: Okay um we only have one more thing to talk about Oh, we already talked about the.
Mark: credit card processing in that, and you, you helped us there go ahead and try it later today or tonight.
Markus: I didn't I successful successfully subscribed, so I should be able to.
Markus: to let me see if I can say.
Mark: i'm having fun yet, but yes, you should.
Markus: If you don't get anything.
Markus: Okay, see you guys in Tokyo.
Eric-Jan: And Marcus Marcus.
Mark: And we only have five minutes left anyway so i'm.
Bryan: back to the Code of Conduct so, for if we work we functionally copied all of the wikimedia foundations code of conduct.
Bryan: Discussion of them some of the processes about who to contact internally right and then Cindy and.
Bryan: If you are looking into some of the internal processes that aren't specifically stated, but if we kind of do that right we're no more at risk and whatever they're doing right we're just kind of following their lead.
Cindy: Yes, except for the fact that they have a legal department and we don't so we're not at no more list Western they are, but they can they can defend themselves.
Bryan: we're not like doing something weird that you know that is opening ourselves up differently than than what they're doing, other than their legal support staff. yeah.
Eric-Jan: However, we should do fine on the web circumstances the code of conduct is applicable, I would say.
Eric-Jan: Probably we can you guys thought about that as well.
Cindy: Oh yeah yeah well in fact just a couple days ago they they adopted a universal code of conduct that is even you know at a higher level than the one for the tech for technical spaces. Right.
Cindy: And there's a lot of people are.
Cindy: Very there are a lot of people who are very, very unhappy about it.
Cindy: But I wouldn't say a lot of people.
Cindy: There are a few very vocal people as with anything Wikipedia who are very unhappy.
Mark: That that that code of conduct in would cover random comments on.
Cindy: Media l.
Cindy: yeah talk pages yeah.
Mark: or spam on on the wiki itself so. yeah.
Mark: Anyway, yeah I think anyway.
Mark: 111 more item just before we go on this list is the Brian and Marcus to work on actions for this year, but that was next meeting that y'all we're going to talk about that right.
Bryan: yeah I think so.
Bryan: Network on there, but what.
Bryan: Is that that has to do with the kind of music machinery like setting up.
Bryan: You know, voting by individual Members for the board and having annual meetings.
Mark: I think, so I remember, we started to discuss this, or you started to say something about having it ready for this week and Marcus said oh hang on let's you know, take a little bit more time and so that's what.
Mark: Okay yeah and and Marcus has a lot more experience with being a board member in that sort of thing running an organization, so I defer to him there.
Mark: um other than that I think we're all good right and we can meet again next week Oh, and one of the things there will be frying and Marcus.
Mark: Talking about the machinery.
Mark: And we'll have a code of conduct, hopefully, some hope you're going to talk to the legal people is that right Cindy.
Cindy: Maybe i'll try to reach out to trust and safety and.
Mark: Okay yeah and and by next week, we should have millions of dollars running rolling in from the credit card processing.
Mark: yeah millions, why not.
Cindy: Then we can afford an IP address.
Mark: Yes, yes.
Mark: um I might have to start drawing a salary, then.
Cindy: lex i'm very worried because there's this green light on your face that looks like somebody like targeting a gun at you or something.
Eric-Jan: That is it.
Cindy: went away.
Lex: yeah it's this.
Cindy: That light and it's reflecting off and back on that's exactly it.
Lex: You mean like that.
Cindy: yeah like exactly.
Cindy: At first I thought it was like an artifact of my monitor and i'm like.
Lex: You know.
Lex: right there yeah.
Mark: Thank you, that that makes us all feel so much better.
Cindy: not really my.
Evita: thing not read read.
Cindy: Read read read right.
Mark: Okay, thanks, a lot yo. bye.