Discuss Board Meeting

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Raw transcript:

Eric-Jan: Mentioned that the reason that I mentioned, these, these things is that they could be long on our strategic agenda.

Eric-Jan: And that they are that they are actual right there that they asked heritage at this moment in time. So that's why I've listed these, but we could easily think of, let's say, perhaps 10 x term goals or or hundred

Eric-Jan: But these are the things that popped up in my mind that that are that are here now.

Markus: What I think the question is, what, what role can the stakeholders play in these

Markus: In this project.

Markus: In your version like the content provider and I see the stakeholders. I mean, what we are good at is throwing people together and coordinating the effort. So the

Markus: content provider version of media Ricky is something that requires a lot of effort in different areas.

Markus: So I think in order to make this happen.

Markus: Some coordination is needed. So not everyone in every actor in this game starts working on say ACL or process at the same time, but you know once you start working ACL watch and start working across

Markus: So this coordination is something I guess the stakeholders are good at and that would be a natural growth for us to do.

Markus: That that's my thing.

Eric-Jan: So so so what a Marxist opinion on on on our position and draw on this specific

Eric-Jan: Point that we could we could discuss for all these points, and I mentioned that perhaps we agree on that. There's no, there's no position or all for us in a certain for certain subjects. That's fine with me as well. But it. I think it should be discussed.

Eric-Jan: It could be discussed.

Mark: So I missed the first part, you said there Marcus.

Mark: The first five minutes of the meeting.

Markus: Took all the factors we talked about dogs.

Markus: Before that, and then the agenda setting.

Mark: Talk about why

Markus: Cindy store.

Cindy: Cheese. Cheese.

Mark: Yes, exactly. Okay.

Markus: I'm just saying you didn't miss

Markus: It guess

Mark: So, um,

Mark: What yeah I guess I'm trying to get a handle on this.

Mark: And that's why, that's why I sent out that email last night, I was like, you know what I like what Eric sent out that, you know,

Mark: That he wants to focus on the street to the strategy of what our strategy is going to be to meet our long term goals. I don't think we've actually. Well, we do have long term goals, but we don't think about them enough

Mark: And actually what is implementing what it takes to implement those things. And I think the

Mark: Project master, you know, and in

Mark: The other thing he mentioned, which I have not checked out yet, but I think that those are two things that concrete ways to get through our goals.

Lex: Can I ask what is the media wiki open source content services platform is that the product level of Canasta or is that something else.

Mark: Is that the collaboration between a wiki base and hello well

Bryan: I think that's ads.

Bryan: Kind of version of project NASA that he talked about during some W con

Markus: Eso as far as I understand it, there to note worth it efforts to do something like get a media wiki product out there. One is project NASA and at the same time, a few people have been talking about that media wiki open source content services platform spearheaded by wiki base. I think

Markus: I know that elevate is important and

Markus: I guess others as well so

Markus: Again, this seems that these two projects are very similar. So they might just

Markus: Just joined together, but they are initiated by different people. So as, as you all know, is initiated by your own calm and the most clubs.

Markus: Is initiated by wiki based on

Markus: Yeah.

Mark: Yeah.

Markus: From from Mark from a strategic standpoint, I think.

Markus: The media key stakeholders strategic goal is to

Markus: To connect

Markus: Professionals or entities that work in this media wiki environment. So it's not so much that we would actually say this is our product but

Markus: We could, and that was what I was saying, we could we could try coordinate. So, for example, try to bring Canasta and immediately open source platform together. And by that furthering our goal of becoming a hub for like all this, the people that are also the entities that

Markus: That's, that's my idea of how this fits into the stakeholders.

Eric-Jan: I think it's a good

Mark: I think along with that is

Mark: What I said in the chat on the way the meeting, which is, you know,

Mark: We need something concrete here the both of these ideas are basically we want a platform that includes media wiki. What does that mean you know what what goals are we trying to accomplish here. And I think that

Mark: It seems like in bringing these bringing developers together, we can also say, you know what, what are the things that we can accomplish with this collaboration. You know what, what are we trying to do to make media wiki better

Mark: And it's not it's not like we're focusing on a product, but, you know, getting people to think more concretely than just, hey, I have this idea for

Eric-Jan: Yeah. Well, I think that both as Marcus. And Brian said both projects will make a little projects or initiatives are in the art and another stage of adopting right so they're there, they're asking for direction here is asking for clarification, they're asking for guidance in this phase.

Eric-Jan: I don't think that they, they can be complimentary and they can Enhance. Enhance each other, but I don't think they're quite comparable, but that is based on your face that I have now of course I know a lot more on the on the most cost unpronounceable work.

Eric-Jan: On the connector project, but I think like Brian he should have, let's say, a picture, or a certain picture together with Sydney on both projects. So if they would zoom out a little bit. They would be, they could say sensible things on this, but as Marcus says i think it's it's okay to

Eric-Jan: To connect and to enhance these two because that they are valuable initiatives. I think that that we agree on.

Eric-Jan: And what I see is that of course jarome try well people or consultant or companies, they are being attracted and or mobilized by one of the two initiatives or perhaps both, but it will be our objective really to

Eric-Jan: Combine and and and and and make it work together for did. I think it's really a challenge for these two nieces at the same time.

Cindy: Yeah I agree to have that higher level view of what's going on in both projects and be able to give input to make sure that the two efforts R amp D complimentary and if there are

Cindy: Opportunities for one project to benefit from something being done in the other.

Cindy: The worst possible thing that would happen is they they develop that they'd both go off in their own direction and wind up being incompatible and and not having that level of coordination.

Cindy: So I

Cindy: Think yeah you know having, having

Cindy: folks from stakeholders who have a view into both projects to help facilitate communication between them.

Cindy: And and ease the communication.

Cindy: Demands of those who are in the project and working on them, you know, to help provide that

Cindy: You know, additional as you said input and feedback and

Cindy: Communication and also helping communicate out if it, you know, and if they need to get other input from the community connecting them with

Cindy: Other people who might have Right.

Eric-Jan: And my history in the community. So it's only it's only relatively short right you know or you you have at least you have the experience of projects run in the community. I have. I don't have this experience.

Eric-Jan: Called a church, which is customer driven. So we have a paying customer that

Eric-Jan: That helps us to defend up. It's a total horizon that Gartner

Eric-Jan: That the Gartner boots in the magic quadrant offs of cultures or platform and it is my dream. As I explained to to become part of the of the analysis and part of the of the magic quadrant, a part of the peer group that that Gartner pictures.

Mark: So,

Eric-Jan: I noticed Sydney Sydney Sydney shares. This is cool living

Eric-Jan: But this is a long time that I agree.

Mark: So it sounds like we're all on the same page here as far as, you know, we're going to be working together and trying to

Mark: Hopefully go be involved in both product project as much as we can so we can make sure there's cross pollination, or whatever.

Mark: Um, what's, what's the. So I think that part of this is taken care of that we're all in agreement with that, that this meet with our strategy is strategic planning and whatnot. Um, what's the next step here.

Eric-Jan: Yeah, what I would say. Mark is that someone or a small group.

Eric-Jan: Makes the analysis on how these two projects compared to each other as in the goals or the end situation they want they want to they want to achieve. And if we know the ultimate goals of these two project if we can compare this and we should be complimentary us. We could also

Eric-Jan: Try to support the

Eric-Jan: The enhancement to working together of the of the tool. So I do not have the complete picture at the moment, but I'm sure that we are able

Eric-Jan: As a chef I for death were able to do this and then we can support the urine and the empty nester project not not your own particular spurs, as well as the other projects. The two of them. So yeah, there will be a next step.

Eric-Jan: Find find the

Eric-Jan: Complimentary

Eric-Jan: Complimentary aspects and

Eric-Jan: combine these two to to improve to improve and to accelerate both projects.

Eric-Jan: Or to accelerate or to make it automated or to make them happy heaven.

Lex: Sorry, every gun you have an ID description of this mosque costs.

Eric-Jan: Yeah yeah so

Eric-Jan: It looks

Lex: Like

Lex: You know you're writing like

Eric-Jan: Yeah, sure. We every

Eric-Jan: Background document, but I will send you

Eric-Jan: I will send you a flavor to URLs have

Eric-Jan: Updated articles by Gartner on the future of content sources that furthers the Global Future for these platforms they for see and feel free to read that and to to

Eric-Jan: To

Eric-Jan: Go to Georgia to just get

Eric-Jan: It out look

Lex: But is that is that most cost is that a white paper is set of ideas or are there already lines of code.

Eric-Jan: The building block the modules were a competency or subtract from could consist of the modules, we have we have already quite some quite some work done that, say from 10% of an inch situation to 50% of an situation of various modules, we are now working on the on the subject permissions.

Eric-Jan: And so if you would agree on the modules or the extensions or the functionality that are the capabilities, a cooking show spectrum could consist of as a as an admin situation on the Iraqi on the media wiki platform.

Eric-Jan: You could also say, Okay, what do we need to make this a a true proposition on the wiki platform was needed. So that's what we tried to discuss with a Hello World. Now a little bit. I think together where we're at about 30 to 40 developers. So there are some critical mass there.

Eric-Jan: And but it's the different by customer of ours at the moment, right. So we are we are we are now trying to shape the CSP to constitute best rule of the future.

Mark: Um, I, I hate this name. First of all can I make a suggestion that you replace the SP with wiki. So it's Moscow instead of mackoff

Eric-Jan: Sure. What, what would it be then Mark.

Mark: Media wiki open source content wiki.

Cindy: wiki twice in it then.

Eric-Jan: So it's

Mark: It's a double wiki.

Cindy: More with. It's always better. Right.

Eric-Jan: By one good one for free. Yeah.

Eric-Jan: No, no.

Eric-Jan: How do you call that the year

Eric-Jan: And the acronym is really is really terrible, terrible to pronounce. Sorry, sorry, Vargas

Cindy: growing on me must pass

Mark: I, I'm going to call it Moscow. Anyway, whether y'all do or not, but Great.

Eric-Jan: Fine with me, Tony, your name right, but the but the curve. The name is the

Eric-Jan: CSP becomes a church platform, which is

Eric-Jan: Which is on the internet and within Gardner for quite some time now.

Eric-Jan: For years now.

Mark: So yeah, I'm like I said, I'm just gonna pronounce SP is the w. So yes, Moscow.

Mark: Right.

Bryan: You're in part.

Mark: Of you want

Cindy: You can sell

Bryan: It a coward project can ask her right now isn't really the product yet. It's just the

Bryan: The working

Bryan: Project, you can say something, something, something, and then workshop. So media wiki open source content services workshop, but

Bryan: Actually, the, the, is it the SEO content that's the CO.

Bryan: And the

Mark: Silence The s&p and put workshop at the end.

Markus: Alright, that's cool. With a working title and

Mark: Anyway, Moscow.

Mark: Okay, so who is a who can we talk to Moscow, how can we get more involved in that project because right I know now, I have not been involved with Master

Mark: But I know that I can go to these meetings or whatever. So I know how to do that. I know Brian's been going. Um, is there a way that we can get people who are on this call involved in the Moscow.

Eric-Jan: Yes, sure.

Cindy: I've had some conversations with Charlie. Charlie reached reached out to me a few times. And so I've had some discussions with him and I did attend last Canasta meeting so I feel like I know just enough about each of them to be dangerous.

Cindy: So,

Cindy: You know, I'd certainly be interested in

Cindy: Following along what's going on in both, both of the projects.

Cindy: From from have from conversations about in both of them. I've been sort of trying to arrange in my mind a model of how they relate to each other and where they can

Cindy: You know benefit from each other. And it seems like I'll call it Moscow if market says it's like

Cindy: That that that it's very focused on technical solutions to facilitate, you know, enhance what's in media wiki, to be able to serve as a content services platform. And so the conversations that I've had with Charlie were about

Cindy: The

Cindy: Access Control permissions and

Cindy: So,

Cindy: So it's focused very much on those building blocks the technical building blocks, whereas from Canasta, it seems like there's two thrusts

Cindy: One is sort of like a top down.

Cindy: What product could be built from sets of pages and isn't focused as much on adding additional extensions, although I think that may be necessary, but more using

Cindy: And I always draw a blank on the name of the extension that you introduced page exchange. Thank you. That would create packages around different sort of product vertical areas of

Cindy: Of of capability. So somebody could have a document management system or a or a business process modeling tool so sort of starting from the top down from that product.

Cindy: And packages of pages, but he's also very interested in the infrastructure, having been delivery of this in some either containerized or other wise orchestrated or instrumented platform. And so that's one place where I see that there could be

Cindy: Communication between the two also because I don't know what Moscow is doing.

Cindy: For infrastructure, but it is much more technology focused and so I'm assuming that there will be some delivery mechanism. So it would be good to have cross pollination of ideas, certainly at that level between the two projects.

Cindy: Yes. And I'll just go, I'm going to have to leave in three minutes to go to the wicked PDF 20th 20th birthday celebration.

Eric-Jan: Hmm, boo.

Mark: Boo. Happy birthday.

Bryan: Hey, one quick note about the Gartner thing I'm almost always those magic quadrants.

Bryan: The only thing that sits in them, our vendors, so

Bryan: An open source platform would never be on there, a company that sells it repackages it would

Bryan: So the only things that I think would be on there would possibly be competing. If you want to say that vendors, providing a service to that open source platform.

Eric-Jan: Well, I wouldn't be sure sure I wouldn't be

Eric-Jan: too sure that it's impossible to get a platform in there instead of, instead of a corporation. I wouldn't be

Eric-Jan: Mm hmm.

Bryan: Well, a lot of times, like if you read that kind of fine print on it. It's it same. So the criteria to even show up there is vendors that sell and then X amount like 20 million annual recurring revenue.

Bryan: In this in this you know tech technology or whatever.

Bryan: There's a chance. Maybe things change. But that's all I've seen so far I've actually used that in that argument about why me when he didn't show up in there.

Cindy: But I assume that that if

Cindy: If vendors create, for example, a product based on either of these initiatives that that product could potentially if it gains enough market share. Be represented there.

Mark: Well, they didn't. They have to make $20 million off of it. Yeah.

Mark: No.

Cindy: That's, that's my goal right you know that. Could it be that popular

Cindy: Anyways, I do need I do need to get off now.

Cindy: But I would like to continue this conversation.

Cindy: Around your agenda.

Eric-Jan: What we agreed on Mark, could you are Brian would have

Mark: Spoken so I'm wondering if we can just set this up for next week then because, you know, obviously, there's more. We want to discuss. We don't all have time to just sit here. Um, so yeah, what would that be acceptable to everyone and meet next week, same time, same place. Yeah.

Mark: All right, I'll send out the invite.

Lex: I don't understand what we're talking about. So I wouldn't need a lot more. Can you send me a

Lex: Paper, I mean,

Lex: Yeah, no, I'm sorry, I don't get it.

Bryan: Well, so, um, I think this medium is talking about the direction that MW steak should be taking in 2021 and there is three items that Eric jaan added to an email.

Bryan: One kind of cleaning up and let us take membership so that credit card processing how we acquire new members, how he acquires sponsorship. We really touch on that not much in this meeting, but it is something we need to work on.

Bryan: And he also mentioned conference participation BMW client as MW con

Bryan: And how we help improve that we didn't really talk about that much in this meeting and then the big one.

Bryan: You know me wiki open source content platform slash project Canasta and how we can

Bryan: Be a part of each group understand the similarities and differences and work to maybe turn that into one group. Go ahead. Sorry.

Lex: Yeah, no, I got that I have no clue what mosque costs should be, what are the use cases. What are the benefits to people. What are the building blocks. I just, um,

Mark: You live there for Canasta

Bryan: Yeah, so I mean I think there's there. They're both nebulous enough that they maybe just started, I have a little bit more insight into what

Bryan: Can ask, at least for your runs perspective is trying to be and what has been flushed out so far. I don't have any idea about the other one because I haven't really been in there. But from my just

Bryan: What Cindy said what Erika said. And in general, it sounds like they're really similar just slightly different people involved and direction so far.

Mark: So, um,

Mark: Before before we

Mark: Go any more on that. Um, well, I also need to add an item for the next next meeting, we need to talk about board members, um, as we have to

Mark: I have to get a visa in these and then we also have to figure out, you know, who's going to be our next board member who we need pursue and all that I'm So,

Bryan: Sorry, I was just gonna say that I'm after, after that, um, I did wanted to add that. So both I was calling it a fourth item in this list but MW steak machinery.

Bryan: And, um, but we need to work on board membership, like you're talking about, you know, we should be every about four and a half months.

Bryan: rotating through a new board member. So we need to we need to do that now for one membership slot and we need to look at the process because the other bullet point I have here is, at some point you right now, we're kind of doing it on the fly, but

Bryan: When we do have actual members not board members but you know individual regular members, they are associated with how board members get on the board. And so we're going to need to work on some of that that

Bryan: Right you know operation machinery that we're not really doing correctly right now. Um,

Mark: Could you could you send me those bullet points and then I will send out them in the invite.

Bryan: Heather I'm it's all in the notes that I'm taking a little girly in that in the board meeting notes I'm behind on two meetings, I need to like write up and put in this Yeah.

Mark: Well, yeah.

Mark: If I can get this one now be I'll just send out the invite. As soon as I have that

Markus: Can I add a 32nd agenda point to today's meeting.

Markus: So Richie Rich is gonna publish a lot of

Markus: Articles on the media experts blog.

Markus: But in and he has the stakeholders group to to reset to center those out on Twitter and

Markus: The way he wants it to is that the initial blog or Twitter post comes from the stakeholders and then the other entities just retweeted because that would lay more emphasis on the end of Eustachian

Markus: Did the other solution would be, you know, currently Holloway, it puts it out and end up a steak retreats, but that, of course, reduces the weight of entropy mistakes. So I don't know who is, who has access to the

Mark: Company and I

Markus: Okay, so can you just push you and

Mark: Yeah, good. So I got an email from Richard about this not

Markus: Not about

Mark: Tweeting about it, but about just the blog post. Um, I guess I'll reply to him and ask him for more information.

Markus: Yeah. Wonderful.

Mark: Alright, but

Markus: Market seconds I missed

Bryan: I missed it. Was it just about a Twitter account or was it more on social media.

Markus: Yeah.

Markus: We had in mind, but of course, social media as the more social media you you play the bed is close.

Bryan: Because I think I think at some level, maybe I'm wrong, but that

Bryan: The blog.

Bryan: Is kind of involved in this broadcasting effort.

Bryan: So, you know, when a new post comes out, you know, maybe there's a tweet that that's coupled with it. But there seems like there's probably a need for some kind of

Bryan: You know, a common direction with with marketing and publishing

Markus: Yeah.

Mark: I didn't know you had a tiny gone, Brian.

Bryan: Yeah, she's kind of new to the home. Boy.

Mark: Well alright,

Mark: Well, I will go and thanks a lot, and we'll see you again next week.

Eric-Jan: Excellent. Have a nice weekend.

Mark: Yeah, you

Markus: Have to go see

Bryan: Okay. Hey,

Bryan: Likewise for just one second.

Lex: Yeah, sure.

Bryan: And Eric. Oh no, I'm gonna say Erica underfunded stay on. Uh, yeah. The other thing there. Um, I

Bryan: Heard about it again somewhat recently I think an element. And so I am

Bryan: I

Bryan: We watched or listened to ads talk at SM W con thinking I had missed something. And after fully listening to it again and no new information came to the light about what what it actually

Bryan: Was and it sounds like there's work that's been happening that defines it better somewhere, but I don't I don't actually know. So, um, yeah.

Lex: Because to be honest I have zero understanding. Right now I'm completely confused I and

Bryan: I'll try to explain. From what I understand, so

Lex: Yeah, it

Bryan: It's coming up in this meeting here, but I'm

Bryan: That link that's in there and that you texted her Gartner

Bryan: So Gartner is a is a pretty prominent

Bryan: Group that reviews software out there and software providers and kind of creates new the so called Magic quadrant right and there's like innovation and something awesome. No, but you like you want to be in the upper right right and

Bryan: And so wiki base, I think, is the one that started it, and they have addressed that is like

Bryan: That's where we want to be. I think it comes from ads history is being a part of, you know, some consultancy firm and

Bryan: Like you know when they recommend a solution. It's got to be in Gartner maybe, I don't know. Right, but that it's it. I think it came from them and that's where they want to be. So they've identified an area of

Bryan: One of the Gartner magic quadrant, or, you know, one of the magic quadrants that they want to be a part of. And it's this content services platform. And so then they've looked at that and said, Okay, well, we work with media wiki. We want to be able to create

Bryan: Products based off media wiki that would get rated highly in this. So what do we need to do and and so

Bryan: It sounds like there's a decent amount of work that's already been done between helliwell and wiki base where they're starting to outline the

Bryan: The software requirements, what it would look like what some of the initial products would be

Bryan: To end up being here. I think they're not quite understanding something about it in that it's you don't see quadrants that include software you see quadrants include vendors

Bryan: Companies and but

Bryan: Anyway, and

Bryan: Everything else

Bryan: You know, taking away from the people that's involved in the names and everything else. It's almost identical in pretty much every way to your own project Canasta

Bryan: You know you around Project Canasta kind of started with maybe the same intent, but he came up with page exchange.

Bryan: As a code that's in place and released and out test start down this process.

Bryan: And is now trying to say. But now, that's this middleware bit right where he has this thing, but it might not work on all

Bryan: Media wiki deployments. So now he's looking at and saying, well, is there some common media wiki deployment that we can use that this will always work on

Bryan: And that we can hand it any company and they can they can deploy media wiki using this new thing and then use the middleware bit that I'm talking about.

Bryan: You know page exchange to to handle the package, you know, install and updates and all that.

Bryan: But then there's that the other bit that's the actual products right and so that's that's also open like what's a good one to start with. And, and so they've kind of come at it from different areas, but I see them as being just identical just run differently.

Lex: But so this

Bryan: Will be a content thing.

Lex: Platform. For example, if we finish, as we have discussed

Lex: With Canasta this document management.

Lex: Tool or, you know, this sort of small scale junior app with that be

Lex: The thing that is served on this platform.

Bryan: Well,

Bryan: I think there's three things that that can ask has defined. It's the platform deployment. The method of exchange and the actual content so

Bryan: Whatever is developed as a product. And so let's just say, you know, product number one.

Bryan: Would be deployed with the system and or or would be installed with the system that's step number two.

Bryan: On the infrastructure that is defined and number one. But we, you know,

Bryan: At some level, we can just ignore that and say,

Bryan: Well,

Bryan: They're both going for some way to have this thing like a customer relation relationship management software that runs on media wiki okay so

Bryan: What does that look like right well we're you need to have people internal that we can you know tag is the project manager or the salesperson. We need to have companies that we tag.

Bryan: We need to have a workflow that involves identifying a lead who transitions them from a lead to an opportunity, you know,

Bryan: Follow that full thing. Okay, so let's say I had that working. And it wasn't just a page on, you know, one of my wikis like that I have in the sexual like a competing product with

Bryan: Salesforce, how it works really well how does another wiki. Get it with all the stuff and efficient way.

Bryan: And and and then

Bryan: Is there and then the number one part. So that's three the package and to the exchange part the transfer part

Bryan: The one part is just

Bryan: It does to that that transfer exchange work with all media wiki, wiki is right now and there's a worry that that's not true. And so there's a desire to have just

Bryan: You know, like Meza right like I think we would all be better for better or worse about some of the direction that Meza went if we're all on it. Right.

Bryan: Because all the time. It just sucks when someone has an issue with an extension and they're like, what version of me with easing oh one dot 17 well okay yeah that's not supporting sorry

Bryan: Or, you know, I'm using Postgres for my database. And yeah, that's not supported like it's just confusing because there's this whole layer of craziness that's happening. So that's that was the rationale why

Lex: You get

Bryan: The infrastructure got got thrown into this mix, but it might be too broad of a goal.

Lex: But then this most cost is actually like an app store for Media Week.

Bryan: Yeah, well,

Bryan: Yeah.

Lex: Although that's an app store for media wiki and Canasta is actually Android

Lex: You know, I mean, Andrew Canasta provides the operating system. And by that I mean

Lex: Media wiki core extensions and all auxiliary services like Android on your phone.

Lex: And once you've got that running, you can connect to the media wiki App Store and install

Bryan: Well, so, so, um,

Bryan: So the mosque costs or whatever includes content services platform. And that's more of a

Bryan: Instead of being a customer relationship platform. It's a content services platform or a product lifestyle lifecycle management platform or

Bryan: A VPN tool plot, it's it's it's not an app store basis itself. It actually has

Bryan: A role in a business it's if you read if you read that link that you had a content services platform are integrated platform to provide content focused services repositories API solutions and business process.

Bryan: processing tools. So like an example of that in Gartner is box. Right. And so what what is box used to be called box.net i think but it's basically just Dropbox. Right. It's just this

Bryan: Thing. It might be able to do more than this, but what does everybody think it is just a cloud based harddrive right

Lex: Okay so so Dropbox is not an app. It's a content service, platform. Yeah.

Lex: Okay, okay, I'm good. So that now I'm at least I can

Lex: But, but

Bryan: But the App Store is

Bryan: What I see is the goal right like

Bryan: So, you know, just just

Bryan: waiting another way. Go ahead.

Lex: Sorry. No, I just tried to so if if I have the sentence, Dropbox is a content service, platform.

Lex: I can derive media wiki is a content service, platform right

Lex: Of course, and as Dropbox can be extended with plugins and stuff like that. So commedia wiki.

Bryan: Yeah.

Bryan: Okay, yeah. And there's a there's a very robust um ecosystem out there.

Bryan: So like you get this winner Dropbox, it's it's achieved market penetration people know what it is. It's well Brandon, lots of people use it, it does a thing.

Bryan: And now there's all these other it, but it also defines a full API and

Bryan: You know process that other people glom onto so then there's a less well known possibly thing that says, hey, we, we

Bryan: Integrate right into Dropbox. And we do this for you to right and and there's a lot of that. So I think long term. The goal is to allow me to can do that. And I think with it, having a API, a very strong API as a basis, it sits well there.

Lex: Okay, okay. Got that now.

Bryan: But I will say your app idea.

Bryan: I would like to see right like it would be great to

Bryan: To be able to say, hey, here's you have media wiki running as a web admin. You don't have to go into the

Bryan: You know, you don't have to go in touch the server at all. Good.

Lex: Now just linking up what you exactly say now. So why is it correct if I say Canasta implements media wiki as a content service, platform.

Lex: Or Canasta is the implementation is

Lex: Right Canasta is the content Service Platform implementation of Media Week.

Bryan: Is not quite right, just because

Bryan: Just because Canasta right now is the name for the effort to achieve one two and three that so it might be too broad right now but

Bryan: Originally when it before it kind of got expanded. I would agree with you but right now it's trying to define the deployment tool for media wiki that the method of exchange for content.

Lex: Yeah.

Lex: Some of the common but

Bryan: But, but in general the real goal. The reason why it came up would fit with your statement. Exactly.

Lex: Okay, look for me to be very honest and I'm happy word. The two of us now.

Lex: This is

Lex: too far for me. I want to do bottom up.

Lex: And a dial and

Lex: You know, decide on the direction while we because

Lex: Everything starts with an easy deployable and manageable media wiki.

Lex: Nonsense. Right.

Bryan: Yeah.

Lex: And then how you. It's like the the the body and the structure of a car.

Lex: You know, once you've got the the main stuff. The main mechanics figured out

Bryan: You weren't building a better analogy is a smartphone. Once you have a smartphone. That is the one that everybody uses right and so we'll kind of go with the apple analogy.

Bryan: It's this platform. Now that it had sensors that maybe they installed and then even know what that's going to be used for. And then suddenly developers come along and go hey, I'm gonna use the barometric pressure and this

Bryan: And give you something crazy that you never thought of before. Yeah.

Lex: And you see, actually, I think we're talking crew dragon or

Lex: Just one second. I have to take this call quickly.

Bryan: Now over Chosen

Lex: To be gone. Shannon Dana mmm eating clinically integrated go into it. Man balls off of his

Lex: Job.

Lex: And I think we're talking crew dragon or cargo dragon and I would prefer to just talk dragon right now because and you know this dragon.

Lex: Thing has been lingering around now for five years.

Lex: Yes, we are always coming up with new stuff that we can build on top, but the fundamentals are still not not so. Okay. But it's okay you know i mean i

Lex: Whoever wants to discuss that. Of course it's it's valuable, but I would like to offer my efforts on really this class. And that's why I was always also the first to post you know this infrastructure.

Lex: Suggestions so that's exactly where I'd like to contribute. Because once we've got that out of the way.

Lex: Because we're building the roof without the walls. Now,

Bryan: Yeah. Well, look, I mean, I've been. I've been mulling this over for a while, but I'm new to this world I'm used to the world of a company right and if we're in a company and you were the big boss and I had an idea, right.

Bryan: Once I convince you have a direction.

Bryan: Right, or somebody convinces you or you come up with it yourself. This is now the direction that company is going

Bryan: allocating resources to move in that direction is easy. The Big Boss just commands it so right and the company now has this focus now.

Bryan: That has a benefit from a common direction and maybe has a negative in that some unique beautiful ideas that that weren't champion correctly by the most charismatic presenter.

Bryan: Don't get an audience doesn't get to the main boss and now that's not the direction we're going exactly and

Bryan: That person is explicitly not allowed to work on it. We are now we are going in this direction, which is kind of wonderful, in a sense, right.

Bryan: But again, we might not get the most elegant of the solutions coming out of it. But the open source Source world doesn't benefit from that common direction, but it also has

Bryan: Beauty that emerges in people just doing what they want to do and coming up with something that may never have been able to have been achieved in a board meeting.

Bryan: Now you know something else. So you have this creativity that emerges, but maybe not a lot of backing unless they're able to can you know convince a following. And again, it could come down to

Bryan: A charismatic presenter, or whatever it might be that can get people to glom to their idea, but so it's weird, right. So then, you know, we have this problem to where

Bryan: You know, okay, let's let's not talk about the project stuff. Let's talk about the deployment thing, right.

Bryan: And we have some people like Mark

Bryan: And a few others that have told me, look at me. I don't understand where this is going. Yet I don't. I mean, I know where their goal is, in the end, but I don't see how they're getting there until they have an idea about

Bryan: Like a step that I can take. I don't want to be a part of it. Right. But then that those same people might might

Bryan: Say what you know and then two months when this other group has decided to direction they would look at that and say, oh, well, they chose a and b.

Bryan: I don't like that. I'm not going to be part of this right

Bryan: But it but now it's moving forward with envy and now they don't want to be a part of it. Right. So it's really hard, right, because at the beginning, it's nebulous. And it's hard to find and that turns off a lot of people

Bryan: And and so some subset of that group. Make some decisions, maybe based off of incomplete information, but they they move forward. But then that turns off this other group that

Bryan: You know, didn't want to be involved until was more concrete or just didn't know about it and and so it's just really hard right like

Bryan: You want to start making a decision start doing something, but you don't want to turn off people. So then you kind of have to have this like high level view of

Bryan: Who the potential players are, what their motivations are and, you know, whether they be turned off by a certain direction without them being involved in some cases, trying to get them involved slightly

Bryan: Or being you know fully involved in helping make the decisions, but it doesn't seem easy

Lex: Well remember, I mean, I, I'm basing all my efforts on one or two wisdoms actually two Maxim's one is

Lex: Create the code you wish you had that's more programming and the other one is good architecture maximizes the numbers of number of decisions not made.

Bryan: Yeah, totally. And

Lex: That's why I always insist on this MVP. What is the singles small is stupid. The most stupid most you know doll thing we can get out of the door.

Lex: And try it on people in the street and I just think this mosque calls. Now, is this high level super strategy.

Lex: Which will require a lot more than the MVP.

Lex: And

Lex: You know, I don't want to interfere with anyone. I just want to remove myself from that discussion and concentrate on this MVP, because everything will be built on Mbps.

Bryan: Yeah.

Bryan: And one

Lex: It's a dial. It's, it's, you know, the world as we know it is not the result of human design. It is the result of human action. And

Lex: wasn't planned by the Wright brothers. The Wright brothers hammer together some structure that would take off for 70 meters. It was the MVP.

Lex: And then someone observed it and thought, well, it looks like a game, but it's actually the future. And then it's built up from there.

Lex: And I'm afraid we're now talking about the three at but honestly, we don't even have this little glider yet which we can you know kick around and it will fly 70 meters and Canasta is

Lex: This part and also your, you know, we, that's why I said okay let's no let's vote on this first MVP, and that first MVP now turned out to be this document management thing. And now I think we should stick to it until we have in document management MVP.

Bryan: Yeah, so that that works. And I guess all I would say is

Bryan: We have to be

Bryan: And maybe that's part of what Agile is. But we have to be able and accepting of change. Right.

Bryan: Because

Bryan: We could be making you know the the glider and but we should also know that we're, we're the output. The most important output is concepts building blocks and other things.

Bryan: Not are our final design and then hoping that that's going to last forever. Right. Like, almost, you know, zero pieces processes and components that

Bryan: The white Wright Brothers made is in a you know a 3D right like it but but some of the design that you know some of the, the methodology and requirements are right, but we're know part that like is the crossover. So, but that's hard. Right. A lot of people want to have this thing.

Bryan: You know, it's like, let's pretend that Meza was the glider right but people now are really invested in Meza and if I'm not sure what it would take to place next to it to say, hey, this is what where we need to be and method doesn't exist anymore.

Bryan: You know, could be that Meza is just adapted into it but um

Bryan: But the point is, is some people are going to work on something and then they're going to want that to be the thing

Lex: Yeah, it's I you know I in the last meeting. I think I recognize the little bit where I realized what the issue with misery is for some people, and I compare it to you go to an electronics shop you buy 1000 pieces.

Lex: Build your dishwasher.

Lex: Whereas there are approaches where you can buy an entire dishwasher with an electricity plug a wastewater and the fresh washer and water connection.

Lex: And Meza can be used to build the dishwasher. But what we want to sell to the end customer is the assemble dishwasher, no one of us.

Lex: Unless your electronics nerds goes to an electronics shop and buys 1000 pieces and then builds his own dishwasher. That's not sure whether I fully. Got it. But that's, I think what I recognize last time.

Bryan: So are you saying Because

Bryan: That does seem to provide a full dishwasher. Right.

Lex: At the end, yeah. But if you have to build it from scratch. There's loads of answerable playbooks and that need to be run and

Bryan: Betsy me me Meza if the if to keep that analogy going Meza is like this thing where

Bryan: I buy the box and I take the box home and then there's a button on the box and as soon as I click the button. The button on the box suddenly there's a delivery man that drops off all the components and and then

Bryan: And then a little magic drop is dropped on it, and suddenly it's a fully configured thing.

Bryan: And it is the dishwasher.

Bryan: That I that I want. And maybe I don't just hit a button I scribble some things about the position of where my inlet and outlet is and yada yada. And then it's done.

Lex: Yeah.

Lex: I wonder whether what the robustness is of misery in the field for

Lex: You know, people who are really not into

Lex: You know, like apt install or apt update Meza whether that because I haven't used it. Honestly, so I don't know that.

Bryan: But, but here's, here's the thing. Right. Is it a sufficient vehicle such that

Bryan: We could make it. Someone could abstract

Bryan: Even the you know Meza deploy away so that you just have

Bryan: You know, a server.

Bryan: And someone can just create their own wiki by clicking a button and in the background that button. Click means that it said, you know, Meza monolith deploy and then whatever it is for your, you know, hosting system that allows them to get something up and going right and then

Bryan: You know to do that. The young or after. No, I think it's young. I think it's

Bryan: You know update and upgrade and all that going. Um, it's, it's, it's a method that the web admin on the wiki side, they're looking at their wiki they click a link

Bryan: In special pages that only they can see they click a button that says update Meza or sorry update wiki back end and that that button.

Bryan: Not done does something that they don't know how it works. But someone's coded it so it does the the upgrade for it. And then they click you know wiki App Store quick and they say,

Bryan: box.net integration and then they don't know it, but messages running a new deploy that's added that is a new extension and new connector or whatever. And now it's working. But, you know, it could be that Meza is the thing that runs and does all that

Bryan: Work. I don't know.

Lex: But look, um, I unfortunately need to go now because I've got my teaching coding to my two young friends here.

Bryan: You know, like

Lex: Holidays every now and then at six, and I have to make two phone calls before

Lex: But we can. I mean, we can chat. What, what's your weekend plan. Are you in lockdown as well.

Bryan: We've been I think lockdown kind of some level. I don't know. We don't care about it too much. But I'm pretty much just at home all day. The only time I leave is the surf so

Bryan: Whenever you're ready. I'm available over the weekend. So just

Lex: Let's go. I'm going up to the Alps.

Bryan: Where there's a

Lex: few meters of snow.

Lex: Ice. And yeah, sure. No. Let's Let's resume that discussion a little later because now I really need to make these two phone calls, but, um, thanks for explaining the content Service Platform to me now. I got it understood Well,

Bryan: That's an explanation from the one side that I have almost Another

Bryan: I, that's what I see. And I'm sure I'm wrong about parts but

Bryan: Anyway. Cool. Well, good.

Bryan: Coding and Alps. Let me know when you got some time, but always good chatting with us.

Lex: Well, being you.

Bryan: Where we can

Lex: Okay, bye.