Discuss Board Meeting

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Raw transcript:

Markus: Market week

Markus: Okay, it's yes yes yes recorded as well.

Markus: So I want to go through the trademark agreement and see if there's any hints of whether we can use domains. So, so what I learned is, if you go to legal and you're not prepared. Well, they will just give you a standard answer that is no and

Markus: You have to, you have to negotiate. So I want to skip that step a little bit

Markus: But in the end, I mean, it could be that media definition says we want to own the domain, but you can work with the domain. So something like that.

Markus: Would also be acceptable outcome, I guess. But ideally the ideal outcome is media key stakeholders group maintains that domain and operates.

Mark: I know I I think you've done a lot of good thinking on this already. And I think you know what you said there about, you know, you have to have all your is we would say in America or in English, all your ducks in a row before you go to the legal department.

Mark: That, that sounds like you have some experience with that, um, is. Other thoughts from anyone else.

Cindy: So nice. Oh, yeah. So

Cindy: Yeah, Richard had emailed me about this and I reached out to Chris Kerner as well because he's in communications now to see and he his advice was the same, which is the standard advice.

Cindy: To go to the trademark. So Wikipedia to contact them through that standard email address. I've been trying to figure out who's behind that address. You know who internally.

Cindy: Is responsible for that decision. I have not had any luck, yet.

Cindy: But the foundation is very process driven and things like this. And so requires that they have documentation through the appropriate channels. So I do you think it's best to take that approach. And then, you know, figure out who

Cindy: You know, once we hear, get a response back from trade bar from that email address will know you know who to talk to,

Cindy: But I do think that will be in a stronger position if the

Cindy: If the domain is owned by the stakeholders group. So I think this is the right approach. I think it's you know it's

Markus: A

Cindy: Shame to have to jump through the hurdles hurdles. But I think it's the right way to go.

Markus: I mean the the are like blueprints for this. So, for example, wikimedia.de like different top level domain is not owned by the foundation, but it is on fire. We can you get john

Cindy: Which is an affiliate

Markus: Exactly. So if you're an affiliate, I think we, we will

Markus: We have good chances that

Markus: This is ok for the foundation

Markus: There's one thing that we might have to

Cindy: To be aware of.

Markus: But we need to do it anyways. That is, since we are now incorporated and we have like a different key to start

Mark: We are

Markus: We are, yes.

Markus: Yeah, we are incorporated. Exactly. I think we need to contact the affiliations committee and have them check our bylaws and approve them.

Markus: So that is the point when I go to the foundation in touch and contact them about the trademark. They might say well you incorporated. Okay.

Markus: Did you do your at your house and I don't know if they do it, but that's a chance. There's a chance that this is the case. So I think in parallel, it might make sense to reach out to the outcome and have them check our bylaws arm and approve them.

Markus: Don't think I want to start this right now. So maybe for the next podcast, because I have to think about him to to get in touch with and maybe get a little bit more experience about this.

Markus: And are you

Mark: Are you going to drive that process then getting the biologic proof.

Markus: If you want me to do it. Yes, I can do that.

Mark: Why do you want to put everything on your plate. I'm just like, you know, you

Mark: Know a lot so

Markus: I do have some experience with the into institutional communication in in this media universe so

Markus: I can do it. I

Markus: Don't mind doing it.

Mark: Ray.

Mark: Um, so I guess that's another

Mark: It. Okay, so that's two items then

Markus: Yeah, I was sneaking one

Mark: Getting it getting the Bible as a breach and getting trademark approval for the domain. Um, and I, those are two actions.

Mark: And I guess it, it sounds like you're well you have said you're willing to do both of those things right.

Mark: So, um, I guess we can just say, Are we all okay with that in it should Marcus. Go ahead.

Mark: And and I see a thumbs up. I see another one.

Mark: Legs. Do you have a thumbs up for that.

Mark: All right.

Mark: All right. I think that's everyone

Markus: Okay, great.

Mark: Um, it's quarter till and we still have, I was hoping that a veto would get here before we discussed this last this other thing. Um,

Mark: But I guess we can go ahead

Mark: And unless anyone else has anything to discuss. Does anyone else have anything to discuss

Mark: If not, then I'm going to go ahead

Mark: Um,

Mark: So,

Mark: The subcommittee that a semi Evita and I are on was tasked with putting together a

Mark: Finding going through the fabricator

Mark: Work board or whatever and trying to find out if there's a task on there that would be a good one for the for the wiki stakeholders to

Mark: Push forward, um,

Mark: And and I suggested, and I think Cindy and Evita agreed that the the

Mark: The criteria basically for picking

Mark: And Cindy, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken, you can hear.

Mark: The criteria for

Mark: Taking the project should be something that can happen in six months that has an impact that you know, that is something that we can use that people care about and we can point to it and say, we did that, um, and there was a third thing, but I forget what it was.

Mark: Anyway,

Mark: So anyway, has an impact and and can be done in six months, um,

Mark: And and look at various things. And actually one thing. The one thing that we agreed on was what I put on there, which was not on a fabricator till yesterday when I put it there.

Mark: And that was to create PDF rendering

Mark: For newer

Mark: Newer

Mark: Media wikis, because the collection extension is no longer has the MW live hat, no longer has the ability to print to create PDFs.

Mark: With latest media wiki.

Mark: Um,

Mark: Anyway,

Mark: So that, that's what that's what I was looking at

Mark: That's what we agreed on.

Mark: To do I have the word I put the link I put the link somewhere.

Eric-Jan: Do you have to test number mark.

Mark: Yeah, that's why I was looking for just now.

Eric-Jan: Most recent one is to is the 255800 but that's about integrating collections extension from

Mark: Duck book X. Yes, that's it.

Eric-Jan: That's it. The one

Eric-Jan: Yeah, well,

Eric-Jan: What a coincidence.

Mark: So yeah, the

Mark: That that's let me pull it up here. Yeah.

Mark: And you can see that Andre our current fanboy has given us given us a thumbs up so I'm

Mark: James is also looks like he's giving

Mark: us a thumbs up.

Mark: But does. So the reason. The reason this one I have this one is because I was looking at doc book X work visa pointed me doc book export.

Mark: Which does allow you to construct a PDF from a list of pages, but you have to create a bunch of wiki text to do that collections extension allowed gives you a UI to go through and pick

Mark: The pages. And then, you know, graphically or through the interface construct a book which it will be not, but it doesn't without NW live. It does not have the PDF rendering for so it looks like it's we can find a way to combine those two abilities.

Mark: That that makes it looks like something that could be done in six months, and that will be a

Mark: You know, will have impact.

Mark: Because this is something that people have asked for and talked about a lot is having the PDF rendering um

Mark: So that that was basically the project that we agreed on.

Mark: And we need to get the approval of the board here for that as well. And the next step after that would be to find a developer, I'm

Mark: Not me, because I can't do it because it would look shady if you know I suggest a project for the foundation for needy with key stakeholders to do and then media with key stakeholders pays me to do it. Let's not do that, um,

Mark: So the need, finding the developer. And you know, I guess. I don't know how to do all this get bids or something, I don't know. Anyway, so first question is, oh, go ahead, Cindy.

Cindy: Well, I was gonna say, I think there's a step between making the decision and hiring a developer, which is getting money to pay the developer

Mark: That's a good step.

Mark: Um, yeah.

Mark: Yeah, then I think that's, I think that's where a lot of my estimation troubles come in as I forget these intermediate steps.

Cindy: It small but important

Mark: Um, anyway. So the question is, first of all, it does this sound like something that you think that the media key stakeholders should do I need approval from you guys. And look, I love your I love your thumbs up thing there Eric

Mark: Likes. I didn't see getting do not respond because I can't see everyone at once, I guess.

Mark: Okay.

Mark: No post

Mark: Um,

Mark: Alright, so the next step and then is, how do we get the money.

Mark: Um,

Mark: Which is a good point. And I think, I think that goes back to Eric's work which is you know wiki basis work which is getting the credit card processing up there so we can get payments from people

Mark: Um,

Mark: So, okay, what we have right now.

Mark: I like this because, you know, we're getting things done today. We have the the legal the legal stuff. We have the fundraising stuff. We have the credit card we have and we have a project. So, um,

Mark: Could you help me out here. Brian, like what else do we need to discuss. Is there anything else we need to discuss as far as orders or what we need to do in order of wonder

Bryan: I'm specifically with this or anything for anything.

Mark: I'm just making sure that I didn't miss anything that we need to discuss

Bryan: Honestly I i'm I'm not too sure. And it's too early for me to think I'm

Mark: Sorry about that.

Bryan: I just have one question. I've never used QuickBooks export. I loved the collection extension. I used it extensively until it kind of broke. But one of the thing I liked about it is each user could

Bryan: Create their own kind of collection or book and then print it and it would always print the latest version and they can add an update, and it was persistent to that user is that same functionality existing cookbook export.

Mark: Know that's part of collection. So getting doc book expert would handle the PDF creation, um,

Mark: And actually we can probably ask the developer who did it for

Mark: Now I'm blanking on his name again.

Mark: What's that

Bryan: Michelle.

Mark: Or or the question one.org.co.org export.

Mark: Did that for

Bryan: Ricky works.

Mark: wiki works. Yes.

Mark: Um,

Mark: So we can probably talk to him and get him, although

Mark: The one thing about this that I noticed in looking at his code is it did not go through code review, so it's

Mark: It's just not acceptable to me.

Mark: Um, anyway. But I think that we can we can talk to him about doing that, I am you know other people as well but

Bryan: So I'm technically, are you saying like kind of the doc book export is the new offline content generator kind of a bit of a question is that broke

Mark: I wouldn't say it's a bit. I would say that we would architect this to make it replace the other ports.

Mark: I tried to get offline content generator to work.

Mark: I couldn't do anything with that I got him W live to work.

Mark: But that was years ago. So, you know,

Mark: And send me. Dear did have one thing that she said she was concerned with. Was it the foundation is trying to do this multiple times and has not, you know, had success with it. I think the reason we can have success with this is because we don't have the constraints of the foundation

Mark: They they're dealing with Wikipedia, you know, big honkin thing. Um, we just want you know we're we have clear requirements, I think, and

Mark: I don't say, I think we have less constraints as far as this, then, then the foundation. Did I think that's why we can be successful with getting PDF rendering working where they were not

Mark: Although I do not want to sound cues you Braddock

Mark: Um, we could we could wrap this up.

Lex: Tonight.

Lex: Sure, something

Lex: Have you all seen our discussion between Aaron, Aaron and myself on email I sent an email to kapow three days ago.

Mark: Yes.

Lex: Have you seen that

Lex: Yes. Um, okay. Since we want to push that a little bit.

Lex: You saw Eric jaan response saying I discuss your business case with our team could probably be of support here, but we are limited in time of course we're limited in time, everyone is the question that I have for odd is does the fact that you would be paid for this. Make time available.

Lex: Because that is crucial. I understand of course in open source communities that if you ask someone for a favor and they say, Look, I've got build hours and right now. No, maybe on the weekend and so on. However,

Lex: I think if someone asks MW steak for relaying development project execution, whatever, and they pay for it, we should be able to time box.

Eric-Jan: I already took into account that that was there was paid because you clearly mentioned that in your in your earlier.

Eric-Jan: In order comments but so so Money is not the problem. We are just short of this is these are only two people in our company that can that seem to be of support here and it can be seemed to be of support here and they are limited in their time but

Eric-Jan: I can try to prioritize this depending on what your timeline would be

Eric-Jan: Show.

Lex: You see,

Lex: I mean, look, I've been watching CNN a lot

Lex: There's

Lex: There's home advisor. You all know home advisor. I think right so they advertise that if you have any problem in your house and you're not the sort of handyman or handy woman to fix it yourself. You go to that website.

Lex: You tell them where you are. You tell them the problem and that website will magically relay a specialist to your whole

Lex: That's how I envisage

Lex: Em nothing stakes value and I mean I'm just being very blunt and professional here.

Lex: I

Lex: I don't, I mean I yes because I'm a member, but someone you would probably not want to be bothered with. Do we have time. Can we do it. Can we not do it. Will we have some that's that's all home advisor takes care of this. Right.

Lex: Person that arrives at my doorstep is capable of doing it, willing to do it and willing to accept such and such payment for it.

Lex: I'm just, and that's what I'm, I'm, I'm not so dependent on this work. I'm offering this case, which is a real world case as a

Lex: Test Drive for this process because it would it would create tremendous value for customers if we had such a service.

Eric-Jan: For the media wiki.

Lex: Ecosystem because customers mind they you know they complain that, who do I ask if I haven't problem because I don't want to skim through open source Stack Overflow, things like that. They want home advisor. Right. It's a monkey advisor.com

Mark: We keep Pfizer, um,

Lex: What do you all think about that.

Mark: I kind of understood where you're coming from. With this, um,

Mark: I but we need you to do other things like get the credit card payment processing on their first. I mean, that's like

Lex: Basic guess but honestly that for me is trivial. That's a technical

Lex: Sure issues are simple compared to organizational issues, right.

Mark: So okay, so the other question that arises, then is if we do a service like this. Who is going to be the person that MW steak, who manages the projects. That's, yeah.

Lex: That's the but I am just because I'm always coming back to our promise that we we offer 16 hours of guaranteed project work.

Lex: Someone claims that well what happens, I just want to be prepared.

Mark: That's a good very good point. I'm not the person who came up with that. Who came up with those 16 hours. I believe that was Erica.

Lex: I think it's not

Lex: Such an issue, who came up with it. I think it's a good thing.

Eric-Jan: 16 hours does introduce schedule, but the estimation, that this project.

Eric-Jan: Requires 16 hours from for my

Mark: But i i think i think Lex is right that we need to have a process in place where we

Mark: You know, someone comes and so we need to have that organized, if that's something we're going to do.

Mark: And I guess, I guess.

Mark: We need to, instead of just talking about it. We need to say, is this something we're going to do.

Mark: And, and, you know, after we decide that we can say, Okay, who's doing this.

Lex: For example, Brian wolf is out.

Mark: Well, no, I wasn't even talking about that I was talking about.

Mark: managing the project within the NW state.

Eric-Jan: But

Lex: Just as a side, you know, we all I relied sort of on him for this and I even contacted him personally. But he said, I'm out. I've got other things to do.

Eric-Jan: Could you please tell again Lex

Eric-Jan: For this project is will will be built is for for your company for a client.

Eric-Jan: No it's, it's

Lex: It's checking an extension. That's it. I'm not a

Lex: coder. A racialist so review. It's like when you go and collect mushrooms in the woods.

Lex: Specialist to know which are poisonous and which are not.

Eric-Jan: And it could it could it be the case that this project is related to your, to your membership. Is that the case because I'm just trying to clarify for for the other board members, right, if, if we can get the picture clear practice can speed up the process.

Lex: Yeah, but look it

Eric-Jan: Is a strange question.

Lex: Yeah, I think a lot simpler to this. I'm just telling you if I find the customer of mine who signs up for an M. W. Steak membership because of

Lex: 18 hours promised ye shall his

Eric-Jan: Project work. Yeah.

Lex: Right. Two days after paying. He says, Well, here's my requirement list. Where do I send it

Eric-Jan: Mm hmm.

Lex: And I think we should be prepared.

Mark: So I'm Marcus.

Eric-Jan: If this is reality election if this is the reality right you're you're talking about the real project, right. So Mark, then

Eric-Jan: Mr. Chairman, and then I would propose to to to really make this happen because it can't get any more concrete and realistic, right, it seems like you're I think you're with me right

Lex: Well, that's how I

Lex: Look,

Eric-Jan: Or is this exactly what you're trying to say.

Eric-Jan: Yeah, I'm offering this test project.

Lex: Like we're doing an unmanned in house and if this completely fails. That means I don't $1,000 and to get nothing back

Lex: Then at least the damage is contained within our group.

Lex: But I don't want to do that with one of my customers and tell them, look, this is a great thing if you need media wiki support.

Lex: And then they say, Yeah, but

Lex: How is it delivered that

Bryan: So,

Bryan: One. This one quick comment about all this is a you know Lexi, you're actually bringing up a little bit of accountability and risk, right, like so. If it feels with you. You know, it's $1,000 that you're putting on presumably you're not going to sue and W state know certainly but

Bryan: But even if we believe something is executed properly or a company does you know that's not necessarily what the customer believes. So there is some risk that we're talking about. Right. And depending on what level of

Bryan: Ownership MW sake has in this project if we're not just like a kind of a clearinghouse and pushing it off.

Bryan: All work after developer to do it and all risk falls on them.

Bryan: You know, do we need insurance.

Bryan: To cover this

Bryan: Well,

Eric-Jan: I think that we are what we deliver what we deliver is 16 hours of work. I don't think that we deliver a promise to to deliver a scope of work or a certain result. Right. So, this is this is an effort, another result based

Eric-Jan: Project, I would say.

Mark: That was my initial impression as well. But then, then like started talking about home advisors and he said people show up and not

Mark: To do the work completely

Lex: No, I think it's a good idea to just be the broker.

Lex: Because this insurance stuff. This gets way too complicated, but just broker it right and then they say, we say this is the best person we found to this now. You agree you take an agreement.

Lex: You execute deliver and we handle the payment so

Bryan: We wouldn't have like a you know a project manager per se on NW safety would really do anything. It really just passing off.

Lex: Exactly. I also think that on home advisor, you can sue them. If you have a leaking. I don't know bath tub. After that, that would be that person. I'm sure that they it's like Uber, you know, they don't own the cars. So if they have an accident. It's not their problem.

Lex: But there's tremendous value in in MW stakes advisory in who is the right person.

Lex: Because right now, I wouldn't know who to ask

Eric-Jan: Are we on the same

Eric-Jan: Are we on the same level. Next day is that that there is a there is an effort

Eric-Jan: There that we deliver an effort of 16 hours instead of a result

Eric-Jan: Of a

Eric-Jan: Scope right so

Eric-Jan: It would be risky. If we would promise to to deliver a a project result. For example, suppose that this total project would take about 200 hours and we would only deliver. We wanted to deliver 16. So where does that take us or where does that leave us

Mark: So the conflict, I think, is between what likes is talking about, which is a brokerage service and what you're talking about, which is a consulting service.

Mark: So I think that's, you know, I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in because

Mark: You know, you're talking about two different things that meeting with key stakeholders would be doing

Mark: So I'm not. I think I like better, the brokerage idea then saying, Okay, we're a consultancy that can do 16 hours. I like the brokerage idea better

Cindy: At address is one of the concerns I had, which is, you know, how can you create a project that's exactly 16 hours.

Cindy: You know,

Cindy: Whatever, but

Eric-Jan: We deliver

Eric-Jan: Progress we deliver $60 of progress. So we deliver 16 hours, we do not deliver a result

Cindy: Right. And basically, that amounts to finding the

Cindy: developer who's going to do it and then contributing towards payment.

Cindy: Contributed right

Cindy: Exactly, yes.

Cindy: Yeah.

Lex: Right, exactly.

Cindy: But then any contract would be between the member who's who wants to so

Mark: So basically what a person is doing here is, they're not they're not looking at 16 hours, they're looking at a meeting with key stakeholders as a brokerage and perhaps a discount on the overall price and the discount is basically equal to whatever they pay us

Lex: Yeah. And on top of that media wiki stakeholders group. It also be an escrow service between the two. That's it. We just relaying we're organizing, but we're not taking any yeah

Eric-Jan: Show. This is this more or less also asked for some terms and conditions right under which we will we execute or broke or do the work growth so uh yes so

Eric-Jan: This is one of the excellent point of the original funding plan that we start working on these terms and conditions conditions under which we we we do the we do this work.

Mark: And I wonder, I wonder if lacks and Eric, I wonder if y'all could

Mark: You know, go offline and discuss this more and

Mark: Bring us in a couple of weeks.

Mark: Because we're not getting

Eric-Jan: Done right here, I'm sure.

Eric-Jan: Can so I will, I will try to

Lex: Yeah, but look, they are some

Lex: Hard tasks and some easy tasks.

Lex: Writing it flow chart about high works is easy. For example, who is the pool that we ask for contribution, because right now that Brian wolf is out. I have no name in my head regarding extension compatibility security maintain ability review.

Mark: So one question I had for you though is, is this a. Is this an open source project or is it something that's confidential.

Lex: No, it's open source, the I sent you all the link you all have the link to that.

Mark: So what you're

Mark: Saying sounds like what you're really looking for is code review.

Mark: And some go over this and

Lex: Whatever, whatever I can do myself, I'm looking for someone to do it for me.

Lex: And I want to turn to MW state because I've got a voucher for 16 hours.

Lex: But I'm asking you now who could do code reviews. These days, and now in our

Mark: Well, there's a lot of developers can do code review writes me

Cindy: A lot of developers, you can do code review security review is a little bit more complicated, but there are people that we could ask for that to

Markus: Your security review is is not on the level that foundation requires it, so

Mark: Right in

Markus: I think even half at least half of the members of the MW state could do a security review because basically having a second pair of eyes looking over the code that is maybe a little bit more experienced than someone who wants to

Markus: Actually, I like this coping idea. So I was just, I don't have to read figures in mind. Now, but let's say 16 hours of work.

Markus: If I would charge my center prices here so that's

Markus: About 1500 or more than 1500 euros arm and what's the fee so that feels like 5000 so that and we talking about organization project management and whatnot on top.

Markus: So I wonder if

Markus: If the 16 hours were given based on the assumption that all of us would work for nine hours or 10 hours 10 years in our

Markus: But I doubt we do it if that becomes like more and we can find Brian world to Brian. Whoops. To find to work for nine hours, nine years.

Markus: So, but basically, I was wondering if we could also scope it and say what you can offer is that code review or you know music essentially development and I think Lex has a good point. So we need to scope it we need to tell

Markus: Because, you know, I always get based on my experience as a medium key vendor. I always get a little bit scared when somebody says, I want

Markus: To do anything with you on. I mean, I do have certain experience in certain areas. That's what I can deliver. But if they asked us to set up a type of three page.

Markus: And then they say, okay, it's type of three. But you said I get 16 hours of a developer here in end up mistake that's obviously not what we intend, so we need to scope it in a

Markus: In a good way. And I think coaching is one of the services where we could actually really be of help.

Markus: To two people.

Mark: Right. Um,

Mark: So, okay, what do we need to do here. That's, that's what I'm trying to figure out

Lex: A question now.

Lex: So, Marcus, would you do it with my extension and I pay you through MW state.

Lex: Just you know now really getting concrete.

Lex: Or

Lex: Just, you know,

Markus: Yeah so code review is not such

Markus: A big deal.

Markus: And we're getting

Markus: People to do this.

Lex: Because I'm just looking for someone to tell me whether I have implemented best practice or not, you know that that's that's my main, main issue. For example, the hooks. You know, I was hacking in hooks until

Markus: Next, this is getting too much into detail for the

Bryan: Think there is an interesting point, though, you know, it's not that any potential SPONSOR WILL DO ANY 16 hour project right

Bryan: There's some kind of scoping and we'll take a look at it and say, Yes, we have the ability to execute on this and pass it off to somebody or, you know, this is not something that we're really able to do and that should be okay.

Cindy: I think the key is that we need to have written up the

Cindy: Scope of what we're trying to say here. So actually, a procedure. Somebody would go through by to do this and what the legal ramifications are I think we may need legal advice on it.

Cindy: But what is what exactly it is that we're promising for the

Cindy: For that part of the membership.

Bryan: Not to shift gears completely, but I am interested you know James brought up an interesting point last time about, um, you know, what can we do such that he can bring something to his management to ask for sponsorship.

Bryan: And, you know, are we working toward having that in place.

Mark: I think this was the initial approach to doing that I'm, I'm not sure this is lining up with back goal. Specifically, I think this was initially how we approach that

Bryan: So, so having some of the benefits concrete and the processes internally ready but then also having the ability to take payment or some of the bigger ones. Was there anything else that that's big or missing.

Markus: The benefits you mean, why should not have become a member of end of the state.

Markus: Well, I think, you know,

Markus: If it is for the 16 hours of implementation that will be very expensive 16 hours from now. So that's maybe a nice add on, but it's not our selling point the selling point is we are experts on this isn't

Markus: Isn't a term that community of practice or something like that. So this is like

Markus: And that's why I find Lexus example so cool. It's about coding because you don't get if if NASA Christ create

Markus: Extensions. And of course, they are very experienced as a bad example. But if like a random company that starts working with media creates essentially they want, they can hire developers, but they can't hire

Markus: The experts to tell them this is a good way. Right. So on this this expert experience is something I think we can we can actually put out as a selling point you get that if you are a member

Mark: Right, because I, I'm just thinking about. It's a good point that you there are PHP developers. And if someone just wants me wiki and they say, oh, media wiki is written in PHP. Well, I need PHP developer

Mark: I've seen what PHP developers do with media wiki and it's

Markus: Not

Mark: It's not what you're supposed to do.

Cindy: And I'll say also that

Cindy: That the coding standards.

Cindy: Have changed dramatically. Even in the last three years with leading the keys. We won't go into more of a dependency injection style and so

Cindy: It's not just a matter of saying is a good PHP. But, you know, does it align with the

Cindy: Exactly style that and also proper use of media with the core integrating appropriately and so you really do need somebody who's experienced and recent media wiki style.

Mark: Um, I would I would I would talk about this though, I would eliminate the word style because style could be subjective, there are, you know, the things

Cindy: Standards are

Eric-Jan: There, there are two standards.

Cindy: It's documented you

Mark: Know, I understand that.

Mark: But if someone's just looking for functionality. They're not going to care about style.

Eric-Jan: But

Mark: The things you mentioned like dependency injection in that sort of thing are when I think style. I think capture spaces.

Mark: Um,

Cindy: I won't, I won't debate that

Cindy: We can have

Mark: The argument within the wiki community September spaces.

Mark: But that's a style issue and, you know, you could have been working code without

Cindy: Not going to debate.

Cindy: This is not a debate.

Mark: Um, anyway.

Mark: I mean, unless I'm mistaken about everything that I think I know about what the several arguments in me, you wake, er, um,

Cindy: There are tools that you can use that will

Cindy: That will guarantee that it's

Cindy: Somebody who doing review, the first thing they would do is set up the repo to use those tools correctly.

Cindy: Exactly to detect. So, and, and one of the things they detector or style violation stuff.

Mark: Right. The code sniffer yeah that's that's

Mark: Anyway,

Cindy: Yes, we are.

Mark: I don't think that i think that i think this is a good thing that we have the experience to say to look at code and say, you know, this is best practices or not. I think that's, that is a place where we could come in with this, um,

Mark: But then that's not really outsourcing our brokerage new work that's just us doing it.

Cindy: Right now.

Cindy: It could be

Mark: Yeah, good.

Markus: It's not this in our let's

Markus: Let's try to do it with Brian work.

Cindy: I didn't have some of the developers on my team might want some extra hours on the side.

Markus: Exactly. I mean, that is something we could actually try to build up like an expert database. So, you know, some more informal have a sheet with a number of 10 or 15 people. We can ask, and who want to earn money for doing these kind of review.

Mark: So the whole the whole incorporation structure we have is, you know, a community of professionals, that is that is legally what we are, we're, you know, people who are professionals who collaborate together so you know i. It makes total sense to do that.

Mark: I don't think I think that we need to have in we only have 10 minutes left in the hour. I think it would be this is this whole thing is something that we need to have a subcommittee sort of thing going on undoing. And I need, I need, I need a few people here to do that so

Mark: No volunteers.

Eric-Jan: Turkey, the exact question mark.

Mark: Oh, we need to figure out how to make this thing, you know, this brokerage thing a code review or whatever we are

Mark: We need to figure out how to make that a thing. And I don't think that's something that we discuss in board meetings. I think that's something for a subcommittee to go out and

Mark: Create

Mark: And I need, I need you know

Mark: I need someone to step up to do that.

Lex: Okay, I would do that.

Eric-Jan: But the first thing I need is an add

Lex: An email address from a person who can potentially do the job.

Lex: Because then I would explain to that person, the modalities of cooperation payment and whatever, and then

Cindy: The first thing. The first thing we need is isn't is a process and a

Cindy: legal structure for how you know we would go about this. The while it is tempting to just start with the concrete case of getting somebody do code review for your extension. I think that's a great way to

Cindy: To

Cindy: Exercise whatever process, we have. But the first thing we need to do is define the process so that we can see if it works.

Cindy: So it's not let's go out and hire somebody to do code review for your extension and then we're done. The first thing is having a description of place. Somebody would go that would describe

Cindy: What it is that meeting key stakeholders group is going to provide in brokering this what the legal

Cindy: Obligations and protections are and then once we have that in place in the process in place, then we say, okay,

Cindy: Let's have a project.

Mark: Right in there and that is the part that I we need a subcommittee to come up with is that

Mark: Right.

Eric-Jan: Well, perhaps, it can even be combined. So if flex tonight i would i would volunteer to team up with lexcen I could do the high level process and the process steps and legs. Good. Good. Okay.

Lex: But, but I have a

Eric-Jan: Practical Approach rights, so it's not too, too difficult. I would say

Lex: No, but then my message difficult can collect money and pay money.

Mark: Yes.

Mark: Yes. And as soon as as soon as we have

Mark: As soon as we have that authorize net thing bill from wiki base will do that.

Cindy: Right now, somebody could write a check in mail. Yeah.

Lex: Because I just want to keep it a dial, you know,

Eric-Jan: Try it out and and Brian can do payments. Right. We the Corporation can can make payments.

Bryan: Yeah. And just to be clear, if you so

Eric-Jan: We are working on receiving payments and we can do. Yeah, sure.

Eric-Jan: Go ahead, Brian.

Eric-Jan: So we are working on receiving payments and we already can do payments. It's not that not that difficult. Right.

Mark: Right.

Mark: So okay, so who's going to come up with this process that's that's the whole thing that I'm wanting to get nailed down here.

Lex: I have it already. I sent it to Brian asking him whether he would be okay with that process.

Mark: No, but that that's a process for your no

Lex: Jack know my project is anyone's project. It's a pure coincidence that I'm the first one.

Lex: You know,

Markus: What about next year not seriously suggesting the process is that any NW steak potential member sends an email to Brian

Markus: Which is so if that force.

Markus: Yeah. So what you're saying is, is that's not the process. Basically, we need some kind of process that goes via the stakeholders.

Lex: Okay, okay, I'm collecting everything that I wrote down in the last four years, regarding this and I put it into an email.

Markus: Okay, well that would probably be a book then right

Lex: Oh, no, no. I mean, I can style it and everything, but um yeah okay

Cindy: But the kinds of things that we discussed today, which is

Lex: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we

Lex: We started this discussion in New York in 2016 it will it will contain everything I put there. That's good. I can do that, I'll do that.

Cindy: It should also like the kinds of things that I'm concerned with is, if we said we will pay

Cindy: The first 16 hours towards

Cindy: Any project that the Member wants and the member decides that you know like me. Right, and it needs to say that we're going to broker it because otherwise. The member could say, oh, and I found this guy over here, and he'll do it for me. So you just need to pay him for 1616 hours and his fee is a million dollars an hour.

Cindy: Right. Like, I know, it's crazy. But we need to make sure that you know that's what we need is we need to have

Mark: Right.

Cindy: Yeah, actual

Cindy: Know what it is that we're

Cindy: We're going to

Cindy: I am not a lawyer, well,

Mark: No real what he said what I think what we all, we've talked about here, and we have to wrap up in a little bit what we've talked about here is that

Mark: We what we agreed on, is we're going to be acting as a broker will have we will develop relationships with developers, people who can code review natural thing, who then we can you know access to say

Mark: You can do this project, or we you know we have someone who needs a project, you can do this. And there'll be willing to do it. And we'll hook them up and then we'll pay the first 16 hours of that work or

Cindy: A word or whatever, not liable for the quality

Cindy: Right, we're Right.

Mark: We're, we're just, we're just, we're the film wire, where the phone wire. We're not responsible for, you know, you can't sue us if you're called quality is not great. Um,

Mark: Anyway,

Mark: Um, so yeah I but we need again.

Mark: Lex. I guess you and Eric have said you're going to do this.

Lex: I'll do it. Okay.

Mark: All right. Um, the only other thing that we have to discuss is maybe

Mark: And sounds like we have things to talk about for the next time we need to set up another meeting.

Mark: In, I guess, Marcus. Do you think that you'll have any progress on this in two weeks on the two items that you have

Markus: Yeah, I should think so.

Mark: Okay, so, and I think there's other things that we need to discuss or we will have to discuss in two weeks. So is two weeks time a good time to have another one of these board meetings.

Mark: Same time next to on the, what's the time. What's the date.

Cindy: It's July 3 which is the

Cindy: Official day the July 4 is being

Cindy: Anyway, if you're in the United States, and you have

Cindy: To holidays, probably in July 3

Cindy: It doesn't matter to me.

Mark: Yeah, so it's July 3 at

Mark: 830 Eastern time, whatever that is for you today.

Mark: whatever time you started this today.

Mark: Is that good for you. I need, I need responses from Lex

Mark: Eric, James. James show the one who made us choose these early hours. So I, I really do.

James: Yeah. So the third is fine with me. We can do it later.

James: I just had a conflict later today. So, if we can, if we want to move it later for try and

James: Find me

Mark: Brian, is it okay with you because that's really the concern here.

Bryan: That I can make myself available for anytime. It's fine. The only thing we have is, there is a MW steak normal meeting right

Mark: Yeah, the, the, the issue is we you know we have people in Europe, and we have people in California and those times. It's hard to find it, you know. But if that works for you, Brian, I think we're good.

Cindy: You want to just do the hour right before the stakeholders group, the general meeting.

Mark: Oh, we, we can do that. I guess that's fine. Yeah.

Cindy: If it works for James

Mark: Yeah, all right, all right, we'll do that. The hour before and the things on the agenda for that meeting will be initially at least will be Marcus's progress on on the domain name and perhaps even transferring MW state to Nvidia India mistake.org to MW steak, um,

Cindy: Can I ask one more question about that now that a little bit more weight than I was when I joined the call an hour ago.

Cindy: So, Marcus is going to, so we're going to investigate switching the domain name for both NW sec.org and video with the blog to the meeting with the stakeholders group and then based upon that.

Cindy: Use somebody from the stakeholders group, presumably Marcus who actually, you know, has the benefit of both being hello world and

Cindy: Stakeholders group would reach out to the foundation at that trademarks back

Cindy: Email address unless we find a better way to do that, between now and then, but I think it makes sense for any questions, any requests to the foundation about using that trademark.

Cindy: Come from the stakeholders group.

Mark: Yeah.

Markus: It was, I was hoping to do it in a different order. So I would

Markus: Ask the foundation. If I'm having them W stack of media video blog on the end of the stick is ok for them. And if they say yes we transfer the domain if it turns out that they say we can't use media Ricky in any domain.

Markus: We do not transfer, but

Markus: You know, but basically, yes. Yeah, so

Cindy: Yeah. So my concern wasn't necessarily the order. It was that when you reach out to the foundation would be impactful, on behalf of the stakeholders group. I just wanted to see agreement of the board into the

Cindy: Stakeholders birthday.

Mark: Um,

Mark: And and I forgot to the other piece of business that we will be discussing, then I guess is whatever Lex is written up for this. This process thing.

Eric-Jan: And also please schedule a heads up on the

Eric-Jan: payment processing.

Mark: Oh, see, there's four things already

Eric-Jan: So yeah, tough will only take a few minutes.

Mark: I'm all right, great. I feel so I feel like we're actually getting things done. And I've been credit. I've heard criticism before that we didn't get things done. So I feel good. Now I'm

Markus: Yay.

Mark: Yay.

Mark: Okay. Well, I think that's it.

Mark: Does anyone else have anything. I think that's it, though.

Mark: Oh, we love you too.

Markus: Bye.

Markus: So the revealing the link

Eric-Jan: The link to these cards is

Eric-Jan: In the, in the, in the zoom group chat. Right.

Eric-Jan: If you're interested in this video cards. The link.

Eric-Jan: It's well

Eric-Jan: It's an American product.

Mark: worse because Americans do everything the best

Mark: You should see our presidents, we've come up with the best presidents.

Markus: Yes.

Cindy: Yes, I was when I was wondering what the link

Cindy: Was like, Yeah, sure.

Eric-Jan: It's in it's in the in the group chat thread.

Eric-Jan: Cindy.

Cindy: You know, I saw it.

Cindy: I saw the link I just wasn't sure what it was for. Now I understand the connection.

Bryan: Notes

Mark: I think that's it. Thanks.

Markus: Thanks. Thanks a lot. Have a great weekend.

Markus: Bye.

Eric-Jan: Bye bye.

Eric-Jan: Bye.