Event:198: Difference between revisions

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(Created page with "{{Event |mwstake-meeting=Yes |start-date=2024-07-05 |start-hour=15 |start-minute=30 |end-date=2024-07-05 |end-hour=16 |end-minute=30 |url=https://meet.google.com/mdd-ufhn-ksb }} ==Meeting agenda== # '''Wait for attendees & chat''' {{Agenda time|5 min}} # '''Wiki Quickie''' {{Agenda time|5 min}} {{Agenda presenter|TBD}} # '''MediaWiki News''' {{Agenda time|20 min}} {{Agenda presenter|Mark}} # '''TBD''' {{Agenda time|20 min}} {{Agenda presenter|TBD}} # '''Wiki Waterco...")
 
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==Notes==
==Notes==


Some links shared during the meeting:
# Discussion about PHP wrt Mildly Dynamic Websites graph versus "The Geek Graph"
#* [https://www.devever.net/~hl/mildlydynamic The Demise of the Mildly Dynamic Website]
#* [https://www.globalnerdy.com/2012/04/24/geeks-and-repetitive-tasks/ The Geek Graph]
#* From the Mildly Dynamic Websites link, "If you have a static website and you want to make it dynamic and you don't use PHP, pretty much all options available to you imply a massive increase in complexity that must be paid up front before you can do anything at all. You bring in a massive framework for the dynamic equivalent of “Hello World”, and then on top of that (if it's a non-PHP framework, meaning persistent processes are probably involved) the process for deploying your website radically changes and becomes far more complex."
#* "Fundamentally, this is what we lost when we moved beyond PHP. Nowadays, we have an abundance of frameworks for web applications to choose from; yet PHP remains is the only server-side technology really offering a linear increase in effort for a linear increase in dynamicity if you are starting at zero. We probably shouldn't be surprised, therefore, by the trend of moving everything to client-side JavaScript. You see, client-side JavaScript shares something in common with PHP: it plots the same line on the graph above. It is, besides PHP, the other compelling technology for mildly dynamic websites, because you can start using as little JavaScript as you like without paying an upfront cost in frameworks and infrastructure."
#* Bernhard comments that this is also true for SMW and invites Rich to give a talk on it.
# SMW Issues:
#* Scott mentioned the Null Edit solution
#** https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Null_edit
# Bernhard says they have 18,906,682 property values on the Vienna History Wiki and 330,324 pages.
# Tom asks if [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MagicNoCache MagicNoCache] helps with null edits?
# Bernhard asks if this is the one, right?
#* https://github.com/SemanticMediaWiki/SemanticMediaWiki/issues/5392
# Rich shows his cache settings:
#:
<pre>
$wgMainCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED;
$wgParserCacheType = CACHE_NONE;
$wgMessageCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED;
</pre>


==Action board==
==Action board==

Revision as of 11:47, 8 July 2024

Blank.png Date (UTC): 5 July 2024 15:30:00 - 5 July 2024 16:30:00
Blank.png URL: https://meet.google.com/mdd-ufhn-ksb
Blank.png Etherpad: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/mwstake-2024-07

Click for time zone conversion

Meeting agenda

  1. Wait for attendees & chat 5 min
  2. Wiki Quickie 5 min TBD
  3. MediaWiki News 20 min Mark
  4. TBD 20 min TBD
  5. Wiki Watercooler remaining Open Mic

Notes

Some links shared during the meeting:

  1. Discussion about PHP wrt Mildly Dynamic Websites graph versus "The Geek Graph"
    • The Demise of the Mildly Dynamic Website
    • The Geek Graph
    • From the Mildly Dynamic Websites link, "If you have a static website and you want to make it dynamic and you don't use PHP, pretty much all options available to you imply a massive increase in complexity that must be paid up front before you can do anything at all. You bring in a massive framework for the dynamic equivalent of “Hello World”, and then on top of that (if it's a non-PHP framework, meaning persistent processes are probably involved) the process for deploying your website radically changes and becomes far more complex."
    • "Fundamentally, this is what we lost when we moved beyond PHP. Nowadays, we have an abundance of frameworks for web applications to choose from; yet PHP remains is the only server-side technology really offering a linear increase in effort for a linear increase in dynamicity if you are starting at zero. We probably shouldn't be surprised, therefore, by the trend of moving everything to client-side JavaScript. You see, client-side JavaScript shares something in common with PHP: it plots the same line on the graph above. It is, besides PHP, the other compelling technology for mildly dynamic websites, because you can start using as little JavaScript as you like without paying an upfront cost in frameworks and infrastructure."
    • Bernhard comments that this is also true for SMW and invites Rich to give a talk on it.
  2. SMW Issues:
  3. Bernhard says they have 18,906,682 property values on the Vienna History Wiki and 330,324 pages.
  4. Tom asks if MagicNoCache helps with null edits?
  5. Bernhard asks if this is the one, right?
  6. Rich shows his cache settings: 
$wgMainCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED;
$wgParserCacheType = CACHE_NONE;
$wgMessageCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED;

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