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# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} Listed the [[MW:Project Canasta/Infrastructure solution|basic requirements for infrastructure]]
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} Listed the [[MW:Project Canasta/Infrastructure solution|basic requirements for infrastructure]]
#* Looks like Lex is the only on that added anything
#* Looks like Lex is the only on that added anything
#* But is what you have here not working?
#** {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} I have it all working, but what I wrote is a high level overview
# {{Agenda presenter|Greg}} I don't think Meza/QualityBox is a good solution right now, I don't have time to work on it and it's not at 1.35 yet
#* Could we use the [[MW:MediaWiki-Docker|WMF Wikibase Docker image]] (from WMDE)?  It has the benefit of being supported by the WMF
#** {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} That might be a bad thing since we can't change it and might need to fork it anyway
#** {{Agenda presenter|Greg}} It could be a downstream fork
# {{Agenda presenter|Greg}} One thing I know for sure, never use Bitnami, that code is a mess
# {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} There is an [https://hub.docker.com/_/mediawiki "official" Docker image] made by David Barratt
#* Many people use this
#* [https://github.com/addshore/mediawiki-docker-dev MediaWiki Docker Dev] by Adam Shoreland, can quickly build up a testing wiki with XD-Bug
#* The [[MW:MediaWiki-Docker|Docker image]] that Greg was talking about comes with SQLite
#* The question is if this is for development or intended to "straight to production"?
#** If production, you need another layer of orchestration like [https://kubernetes.io/ Kubernetes]
# {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} Lex asked Greg whether his Docker file contains anything related to MW or if it is MW agnostic?
#* I suggest an Apache container that is MW agnostic
#* {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} It would be nice if the solution was easy and straightforward for the average Wiki Admin
#* {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} Ideally it can handle the complexity with orchestration
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} My solution can handle that
#* {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} The nice thing about Meza is that it will take any CentOS base & turn it into a MW capable platform with everything required added as it needs it
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} The abstraction layer you make the decisions is the Docker compose file
#* {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} Kubernetes w/Docker is probably the way to handle orchestration
#** Whether to embed code inside the container or outside the volume
# {{Agenda presenter|Bryan}} Asked about how to update an instance deployed by an older Docker image would work and how Docker handles backups
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} That's very simple, just <code>docker down</code>, change to new version # and then <code>docker up</code>.  Any backup script will work for backups
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} Question about where the OS can sit?  Within Docker?
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} No, Docker sits on the OS
#*: [[File:Docker Container vs Virtual Machine.png|border|500px]]
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} Asks Lex to give a presentation of his solution at the next meeting
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} I'm at 80%.  Some of the processes still need to be finished by the user.  For example, I don't have a <code>apt update mediawiki</code>
# {{Agenda presenter|Bryan}} There's the "Unknown Unknowns" for contenders we don't know about yet, but then there's Meza.  We have Greg an Rich that support Meza, but we're missing James and Daren.
#* How do the solutions that Ike, Wikibase Solutions, Hello Welt!, etc. all relate.  Is there some agreement that can be made?
#* {{Agenda presenter|Ike}} Our Docker solution is more similar to Lex's than BlueSpice's, it's a bit complex and the user has to understand what to do
#* {{Agenda presenter|Bryan}} Having people not understand Docker shouldn't be a barrier, we can create good support documentation and help pages that walk new Wiki Admins through the process.  That's something I'd like to be involved with
#* I'm more concerned about some cloud hosts not allowing Docker based off Ike's comments, I'm not sure if that's prevalent amound cloud hosts though

Latest revision as of 19:24, 22 January 2021

Attendees

  • Bryan Hilderbrand
  • Cindy Cicalese
  • Greg Rundlett
  • Ike Hecht
  • Jeroen De Dauw
  • Lex Sulzer
  • Rich Evans
  • Yaron Koren

Meeting notes for MediaWiki "Infrastructure" (Project Canasta) Discussion (Thurs Jan 21 16:30-17:30 UTC 2020)

Notes

The meeting voice transcription is available on the talk page.

  1. Introductions
  2. Yaron Listed the basic requirements for infrastructure
    • Looks like Lex is the only on that added anything
    • But is what you have here not working?
      • Lex I have it all working, but what I wrote is a high level overview
  3. Greg I don't think Meza/QualityBox is a good solution right now, I don't have time to work on it and it's not at 1.35 yet
    • Could we use the WMF Wikibase Docker image (from WMDE)? It has the benefit of being supported by the WMF
      • Yaron That might be a bad thing since we can't change it and might need to fork it anyway
      • Greg It could be a downstream fork
  4. Greg One thing I know for sure, never use Bitnami, that code is a mess
  5. Cindy There is an "official" Docker image made by David Barratt
    • Many people use this
    • MediaWiki Docker Dev by Adam Shoreland, can quickly build up a testing wiki with XD-Bug
    • The Docker image that Greg was talking about comes with SQLite
    • The question is if this is for development or intended to "straight to production"?
      • If production, you need another layer of orchestration like Kubernetes
  6. Lex Lex asked Greg whether his Docker file contains anything related to MW or if it is MW agnostic?
    • I suggest an Apache container that is MW agnostic
    • Yaron It would be nice if the solution was easy and straightforward for the average Wiki Admin
    • Cindy Ideally it can handle the complexity with orchestration
    • Lex My solution can handle that
    • Cindy The nice thing about Meza is that it will take any CentOS base & turn it into a MW capable platform with everything required added as it needs it
    • Lex The abstraction layer you make the decisions is the Docker compose file
    • Cindy Kubernetes w/Docker is probably the way to handle orchestration
      • Whether to embed code inside the container or outside the volume
  7. Bryan Asked about how to update an instance deployed by an older Docker image would work and how Docker handles backups
    • Lex That's very simple, just docker down, change to new version # and then docker up. Any backup script will work for backups
  8. Yaron Question about where the OS can sit? Within Docker?
    • Lex No, Docker sits on the OS
      Docker Container vs Virtual Machine.png
  9. Yaron Asks Lex to give a presentation of his solution at the next meeting
    • Lex I'm at 80%. Some of the processes still need to be finished by the user. For example, I don't have a apt update mediawiki
  10. Bryan There's the "Unknown Unknowns" for contenders we don't know about yet, but then there's Meza. We have Greg an Rich that support Meza, but we're missing James and Daren.
    • How do the solutions that Ike, Wikibase Solutions, Hello Welt!, etc. all relate. Is there some agreement that can be made?
    • Ike Our Docker solution is more similar to Lex's than BlueSpice's, it's a bit complex and the user has to understand what to do
    • Bryan Having people not understand Docker shouldn't be a barrier, we can create good support documentation and help pages that walk new Wiki Admins through the process. That's something I'd like to be involved with
    • I'm more concerned about some cloud hosts not allowing Docker based off Ike's comments, I'm not sure if that's prevalent amound cloud hosts though
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