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The meeting voice transcription is available on the [[User_talk:{{PAGENAME}}|talk page]]. | The meeting voice transcription is available on the [[User_talk:{{PAGENAME}}|talk page]]. | ||
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} I hope this isn't just me, ideally other people will use this | # {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} I hope this isn't just me, ideally other people will use this | ||
#* As a note, the project has the following parts so far (as defined on the [[MW:Project Canasta|Project Canasta]] on MediaWiki.org): | |||
#*# A system that allows for creating a "starter installation" of MediaWiki plus some specified set of extensions and skins, possibly using [[MW:Composer|Composer]]. | |||
#*# A system that allows for publishing a downloadable version of this installation - and potentially the software environment around it, such as Apache, MySQL and PHP - using a tool like [[wikipedia:Docker (software)|Docker]] or [[wikipedia:Ansible (software)|Ansible]]. (See [[MW:Project Canasta/Infrastructure solution|/Infrastructure solution]].) | |||
#*# A mechanism to allow for installing wiki pages onto the resulting wiki, possibly using the [[MW:Extension:Page Exchange|Page Exchange]] extension. | |||
#*# A set of wiki page packages to fit the various decided-on use cases. | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Rich}} I have an investment in Meza, I'm willing to switch as long as there's something better. | |||
#* I'm also very interested in the "data structures" marketplace. | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} I probably wont' use anything in my current role | |||
#* I feel MW is amazing software that has HUGE potential | |||
#* I also feel there's impediments to broader use, including: | |||
#** Difficulty in installing, maintaining, & deploying infrastructure | |||
#** MW Out-Of-The-Box is a blank page problem | |||
#** For some applications, there would be communities that would use it more if solutions existed (and it was known that it was available) | |||
#** Data structures are really important (& PX or some other way to share them would be extremely helpful) | |||
#** Infrastructure is a separate discussion | |||
#** For infrastructure, who is the customer? SysAdmins or New Users? | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} The project should be focused on organization & pragmatism | |||
#** Good software is voluntarily used | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} My assumption is Docker is a sledgehammer | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} My implementation of Docker (when compared to Meza) is a sledgehammer | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} It seems Docker is a better solution than Meza when considering how easy it works on different systems | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Rich}} Where do the Docker images "live"? | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} Could be anywhere, but typically on DockerHub (either public or private) | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Rich}} We need assurance all code is coming from a "reputable source" | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} From Docker, images are described from YML files | |||
#*** These can be inspected | |||
#*** Some images are considered "official" by the maintainers | |||
#*** Meza & similar are defined by YML files as well, so trust is involved in both paths | |||
#*** There is an official MW image (from WMF) | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} There's no guarantee of security, there could be a major bug in SMW | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} Now I'm thinking the best thing to do is create something from scratch | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Ad}} What will be inside the container? | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} Lots of decisions, MW volumed in? MySQL in it's own container?, etc. | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} I'm going to make another plug for orchestration, a level on top of the container | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Ad}} Can you run Kubernetes from your local PC (or AWS/other)? | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} Yes | |||
# {{Agenda presenter|Bryan}} Who is the customer? As an example, NASA started their wiki as a gorilla project under their desk. Could they use it? Would they continue to use it as they began to develop their own extensions? | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} It should support most/all use cases | |||
#* {{Agenda presenter|Cindy}} There's a difference between development & production (and staging) | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Bryan}} You can "spin up" a Docker image & use it for testing (development), but that shouldn't be used in production until the changes are incorporated back into the "official" Docker image. Is that right? | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Yaron}} I think we should be able to "develop" & that part of the code would be outside of a Docker image | |||
#** {{Agenda presenter|Lex}} Another option is environmental variables, you could volume in all of LocalSettings extensions | |||
==Chat transcript== | ==Chat transcript== | ||
Content pulled from the chat record of the meeting. | Content pulled from the chat record of the meeting. | ||
Latest revision as of 20:02, 15 February 2021
Attendees
- Ad Strack van Schijndel
- Bryan Hilderbrand
- Cindy Cicalese
- Lex Sulzer
- Rich Evans
- Yaron Koren
Meeting notes for MediaWiki "Infrastructure" (Project Canasta) Discussion (Wed Feb 03 16:30-17:30 UTC 2020)
Notes
The meeting voice transcription is available on the talk page.
- Yaron I hope this isn't just me, ideally other people will use this
- As a note, the project has the following parts so far (as defined on the Project Canasta on MediaWiki.org):
- A system that allows for creating a "starter installation" of MediaWiki plus some specified set of extensions and skins, possibly using Composer.
- A system that allows for publishing a downloadable version of this installation - and potentially the software environment around it, such as Apache, MySQL and PHP - using a tool like Docker or Ansible. (See /Infrastructure solution.)
- A mechanism to allow for installing wiki pages onto the resulting wiki, possibly using the Page Exchange extension.
- A set of wiki page packages to fit the various decided-on use cases.
- As a note, the project has the following parts so far (as defined on the Project Canasta on MediaWiki.org):
- Rich I have an investment in Meza, I'm willing to switch as long as there's something better.
- I'm also very interested in the "data structures" marketplace.
- Cindy I probably wont' use anything in my current role
- I feel MW is amazing software that has HUGE potential
- I also feel there's impediments to broader use, including:
- Difficulty in installing, maintaining, & deploying infrastructure
- MW Out-Of-The-Box is a blank page problem
- For some applications, there would be communities that would use it more if solutions existed (and it was known that it was available)
- Data structures are really important (& PX or some other way to share them would be extremely helpful)
- Infrastructure is a separate discussion
- For infrastructure, who is the customer? SysAdmins or New Users?
- Lex The project should be focused on organization & pragmatism
- Good software is voluntarily used
- Yaron My assumption is Docker is a sledgehammer
- Lex My implementation of Docker (when compared to Meza) is a sledgehammer
- Yaron It seems Docker is a better solution than Meza when considering how easy it works on different systems
- Rich Where do the Docker images "live"?
- Lex Could be anywhere, but typically on DockerHub (either public or private)
- Rich We need assurance all code is coming from a "reputable source"
- Cindy From Docker, images are described from YML files
- These can be inspected
- Some images are considered "official" by the maintainers
- Meza & similar are defined by YML files as well, so trust is involved in both paths
- There is an official MW image (from WMF)
- Yaron There's no guarantee of security, there could be a major bug in SMW
- Yaron Now I'm thinking the best thing to do is create something from scratch
- Ad What will be inside the container?
- Lex Lots of decisions, MW volumed in? MySQL in it's own container?, etc.
- Cindy I'm going to make another plug for orchestration, a level on top of the container
- Ad Can you run Kubernetes from your local PC (or AWS/other)?
- Cindy Yes
- Bryan Who is the customer? As an example, NASA started their wiki as a gorilla project under their desk. Could they use it? Would they continue to use it as they began to develop their own extensions?
- Yaron It should support most/all use cases
- Cindy There's a difference between development & production (and staging)
- Bryan You can "spin up" a Docker image & use it for testing (development), but that shouldn't be used in production until the changes are incorporated back into the "official" Docker image. Is that right?
- Yaron I think we should be able to "develop" & that part of the code would be outside of a Docker image
- Lex Another option is environmental variables, you could volume in all of LocalSettings extensions
Chat transcript
Content pulled from the chat record of the meeting.