Discuss 5 May 2023 MWstake Meeting
Raw transcript:
Bryan: Lex. Did you want to talk a little bit? You had a page. You had ready.
Lex: not just, you know, this was one of the main Aspects was including information. How do we recommend to promote Media Wiki and we collected a couple of things there on that page. And you can see that one of the core. Question is, why should you use media wiki? And I just want to I mean I I looked at the page now and it looks a little tidier than I thought it would.
Lex: So I'm if you if you look at that page. Now I don't know how to follow that ties in with what Greg just Laid out.
Bryan: https://mwstakeorg.dataspects.com/wiki/Main_Page
Lex: But it's still a wild collection of thoughts.
Bryan: This is, this is the
Rich: It would seem I do not have access to the chat history prior to joining
Bryan: The how can we help part?
Lex: Well that that these are the points where I think we would predominantly provide service. Yeah. and then, To inform, you know what issues are on our mind currently. So what are we? As a, as a association working on. All the topics.
Cindy: The links Greg referenced are at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/mwstake-2023-05
Lex: That you can. Browse. now, as I said it's it's still a wild collection of thoughts now,
Greg: HISTORY Bryan Hilderbrand10:38 AM https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/mwstake-2023-05 https://wiki.freephile.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Marketing Lex Sulzer10:40 AM I just had another look at https://mwstakeorg.dataspects.com/wiki/Main_Page and I can actually provide some follow-up thoughts on Greg's proceedings... ;-) Bryan Hilderbrand10:43 AM https://mwstakeorg.dataspects.com/wiki/Main_Page
Lex: But that's the state.
Bryan: Previous links: https://wiki.freephile.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Marketing https://wiki.freephile.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Marketing
Rich: thank you!
Bryan: Sorry, I just redid it. Thank you, Cindy.
Greg: Sorry, I just copy paste. It.
Bryan: Oh, we all did it.
Greg: Yeah. Um there's there's also a company not a company. Um there's a product There's a product called Eager. Eager, is the North North god of something or other and mythology, or something. And anyway, the but the product The eager hosting system is a product that is a free open source hosting system for Drupal. And, um, I don't know much about it because it's, it's pretty old and I haven't followed it in years, but but I dusted it off the other day. Came across it.
Greg: And what struck me was that? Here's a hosting system that was put together similar to canasta. It's a hosting system for Drupal to install profile. It was something developed as far as I. As far as, I know developed by multiple Drupal vendors, people like Kumit in Canada and and other like really died in the wool free software advocates and companies consultants, but they pulled their resources. Put together this hosting system, publish the docs and everything maintained the system.
Greg: And and I mentioned that just because like there's there's at least a nice project website in this really extensive documentation from what I can see on on make docs and one of the things that they probably didn't do is like enough marketing. Like there's there's just the website and that's it as far as I know and and or maybe they have and I just can't see it and it's just another it's just another example that you know maybe we can learn if we did a lessons learned.
Greg: If we try to look at some of these different just organizations and ideas and start to tease them out and see like well what did this group do? What do they do? Well what what's missing, what should we do? And what can we take away from it?
Bryan: Cool. So now Rich, we have you on here. I think, I don't know if you had something prepared, but we did want to talk about, you know, marketing, media wiki and You were finishing up some meso work during the conference so you're able to completely join but you're kind of listening with one ear so maybe pass it over you for a little bit.
Rich: Well, thank you. so, I think there's two broad groups, right? There's the there's the corporate potential marketing and then there's the Just just business, like organizations, like NASA are different than say or, you know, then maybe small businesses or So I don't know how to draw that line, but I do think that they are they do require two different ways to market and I think that the arguments that I would make for my world are probably different than the arguments that someone would make for a smaller less bureaucratic organization.
Rich: So, The main distinction that I think is that at in a big corporate environment. That's trying to decide whether or not to allow meeting with you to even exist in their system. They're going through. There's this thing called application rationalization and I know that I had dropped that topic into chat one time and it didn't land. Well, because the word rationalization was interpreted, you know, by the dictionary definition
Nick: Are there many small businesses using EMW? Just curious (need to be educated).
Rich: but application rationalization is a business function that CIOs in major organizations are required to perform and it is the defense against allowing the organization to take on too many different diverse software technologies that are redundant. And so, you know, in order for a piece of software, for an application to be on board, In a in a large corporate environment. You first have to justify the business case and you then have to justify The selection.
Rich: So a, you know, we need software that does X and of all the softwares that do X, this is the one that we should rally around. So, there are, you know, for example, do you need a wiki And if the answer is yes, then the question is which wiki and you don't even get to have the conversation of which wiki software to use if you haven't first. Justified, the need for a wiki.
Rich: And, and what I've tried to advocate is that the best The best features of so media wiki is wiki software par excellence, everyone knows that in in the Wiki community. what people don't know is that it can exceed and you've heard me say this in many times, is that with the right collection of extensions and and the right, The right. Special Page, Content, Templates, and Forms, and Categories out of the box.
Rich: Media wiki can be coerced into providing functionality. That is beyond a wiki. And I think that that has to be A lot of times, there's missed opportunities to use media wiki, There are things that I think Media Wiki is great for that. It never gets even considered as a solution for because it is branded as wiki software. so, I think the, you know, and I'm very eager to hear the feedback from you guys, but somehow we have to, in my opinion we have to say Media Wiki is.
Rich: Is A is a broadly applicable piece of software. That can fulfill most of the minimum requirements of many software application categories, least of, which is the need for a wiki. And so, I'll pause there and to me, that's how we have to market media wiki as it's, you know, you want it for reasons that you don't understand yet. if you're only thinking about it from a wiki perspective,
Greg: Can we identify a list of 'users' from WikiApiary? Probably not bc there is no clear correlation between (public) wiki domain and the owner of the domain
Rich: I also love Bernard has sort of indoctrinated me to speak of it as as a Knowledge, Graph node editor and Brian has indoctrinated me into thinking of it as a consensus building machine. And in my own world, I I refer to it as a digital twin for model based engineering. And so, I think those three things. Need to be highlighted in the elevator pitch. It's Media Wiki is a consult consensus building for your organization.
Rich: It is a Knowledge Graph node editor and it is a and IT pro and it allows you to build a digital twin of your organizational processes so that you can do model based process engineering. Those are major. Angles. To pursue. All right. The shepherd's hook is coming out, pulling out.
Bryan: Yeah.
Greg: Can can you can you say that Again? I caught him on an ether pad. Digital twin for model-based engineering consensus, building something.
Rich: Yeah, well I'll let Brian talk about consensus building and Knowledge
Nick: “You want MW for reasons you don’t understand yet” “Consensus-building machine” “Digital twin for model-based process engineering”
Rich: Graph node editor is yeah, that's captured correctly, so that digital twin. So one of the big things happening in enterprise organizations. Is this idea of digital transformation taking traditional organizations that have organic and
Bryan: EMW may not have a strict enough definition to have a good answer to that Nick.
Rich: ad hoc processes and procedures? And somehow turning them into electronic processes and procedures the example being You know, the way that you order a pizza online from Domino's is a fully digitally transformed business process and everything from, you know, the initial customer engagement where they, you have a website you can, you know, register your users and let them let them set their preferences and order your products.
Rich: And then from the time that they place, the order all of the detail on how the order is being processed, it's being prepared, it's being baked, it's out for delivery and then even this you know, like the delivery system now has GPs that lets you see the pizza come right to your door. Um, the ordering a pizza example is A little bit silly but it's something that I think everybody understands and it's in immediately applicable to all of the complex things that are privately happening within an organization.
Rich: And even if you don't have a public facing, a public facing interface, you're not dealing with customers, in the out, in the World Wide Web, even between organizational departments. There is a need like the traditional way of using customer relationship management software. Like JIRA is a very opaque system. We use jera at NASA and everyone hates it because each organization is a black box to the other organizations.
Rich: And so, one of the things that I advocate all the time is radical transparency, and radical accountability within the organization. So, that Department, A is not
Greg: Okay.
Rich: treating Department, A has to treat Department B as a customer, but unlike a public customer department, A can can be transparent to Department B. And so within and so what you have is you have organizations that are being told that they need to have software customer relationship management software and enterprise resource planning software, for their organizations and they are and they're getting the off the shelf solutions that are incredibly opaque between organizational lines.
Rich: And all that does is it just creates silos within the application. And and so these are these, this is data and information that people would not hesitate to share openly in an email among their colleagues. This is information and information that that they wouldn't hesitate to share in a meeting or on a company document server, but you implement JIRA and SAP and all sudden you've got these unnecessary silos that come with it.
Rich: The beautiful thing about using media wiki for all of these non-wiki
Bryan: Radical Transparency = Huge Business Win (when allowed and when it makes sense)
Rich: Organizational, software needs is that you get all of the goodness of radical accountability and radical transparency within the organization and then you can, you can leak that information out effortlessly, you know, to people who are not who are stakeholders, but are not necessarily editors. One of the things that I love about the way Mesa. Implements wikis is, it creates a viewer group and a contributor group and so, Yeah, so you can register.
Rich: So when you deploy a wiki using MESA, this is not a pitch for Menza. This is just an explanation of one of the things that it does. That's nice, is that users? Users can automatically get registered through some kind of a single sign-on system. But that doesn't mean they can see anything so I can give a link out to a user to a NASA user to one of our private wikis and when they when they hit it it will automatically Um auto register the user.
Rich: But that doesn't give them the ability to see anything because we've created a special group for viewing privileges and yet another group for editing privileges and then those things are managed by Authorization. So NASA has a centralized identification server. And a centralized authorization server. And so we can we can learn who our users are from a remote sign on ISP and then we can learn what they are allowed to see and what they are allowed to edit from yet another agency centralized system.
Rich: So we get our authentication and authorization from organizational. Services.
Greg: I'm writing everything.
Rich: And then Media, Wiki it has all of the capabilities to facilitate that and and again, I'm rambling. So, it's We want to tell people that they can use it for model-based engineering of their organizational processes. I think if Greg, if you're If you're the editor in, Mom, I think it is. Yeah, so the The digital twin for model based engineering would be that Media Wiki is a very powerful tool to allow your organization to digitally transform.
Rich: Its its organizational processes and procedures. So that you can do model based engineering on your processes. I know that's a mouthful. But that's that. Bryan, can talk about the consensus building and the Knowledge Graph Node editor is, is Bernard's contribution and and then I like to advocate That these three applications combined with radical transparency, and radical accountability, solve virtually all of the legacy problems that enterprise use that organizational enterprise users have who did what, who changed that did it change? How do I pay attention? How do I get, informed, just a million things that everyone is an email hell in their organization.
Rich: The processes or documented in a, in a document library, but they're there, but it's it relies on,
Bryan: Listening to these use cases, it might be nice to have a place where someone can read case studies for use cases (including standard knowledge management) for how companies/groups/agencies use MW and the benefits it brought.
Rich: Humans to follow those processes, there's no technology. Guiding the execution, there's no traceability. When organizations get audited, they're expected to be able to show that they follow their processes. And that activity is a painful like documenting. Your, like, Let's say you have a documented process and you've got a, You've got a procedure somewhere that says, Here's how we make a cake and you document that process and you put it up on a document server and then you just tell everyone.
Rich: Hey, if you're making cakes, you know, you have to follow that procedure. And so you believe that everyone's doing it. And then once a year, maybe once every other year, some third party auditors, come in to and they want to see proof that you're making cakes the way you. You're, you're procedure says you're making cakes and so it's up to everybody to have that proof um in
Greg: Big.
Rich: their back pocket to be able to show the auditors. And that's always it's always a A circus. And one of the things that in in every in the past five years, since we have been doing these things in my world, everyone is just praising the media wiki's capability of showing the auditors. Exactly. We don't have to put any, any additional effort into traceability or or having the evidence that we follow our own procedures because we've digitally transformed our procedures.
Rich: They're all electronic workflows in the wiki and when the auditors come in, you just click, we just click around and they get to see everything. And so that to me has it's paid for itself. Many times over. Those are the those are the shining examples. But none of that's going to happen. If you can't get past application, rationalization. So you've got to convince the decision makers of why Media Wiki is allows the organization to more cheaply more efficiently, more reliably, fulfill its goals.
Rich: So, you know it's it's a tough sell so you know, it's weird because you guys are trying to pitch the product in the elevator but you don't have insight into what they're what their strategic goals of their organization are nor, are they going to tell you those? But you know, in order to curate your elevator pitch So, you almost have to. Just have a model in your head for what it is.
Rich: That corporate enterprise users are trying to do. They're trying to minimize the diversity of software and they're trying to eliminate unnecessary software.
Lex: Hmm.
Rich: And and so you can say, Media Wiki is a fantastic choice. For reducing the total number of software products that your organization maintains. And and the total cost. So, you know, like if you can say, I can do six different, There's you have six different things you need software for and meeting with. You can can can do it for all six. Then you don't need six different products from six different vendors with six different security models and six different support models.
Rich: So consolidating functionality into one application. Is is A, is one of the things media wiki offers and, and eliminating redundant diversity, you know, just everything. Flock to quote, Lex flock to Media Wiki In the organization and eliminate redundancy and eliminate diversity. And Yeah.
Nick: Right. Has anyone written case studies for how NASA is using MW? What Rich is saying is very valuable.
Rich: Okay.
Bryan: Cool. Thanks Rich.
Rich: Okay.
Bryan: and yeah, one thing that I wrote while you were talking is you know, one of the things you highlighted is there's lots of ways to use media wiki. And there's lots of use cases and needs out there. And so I was saying, they'd be there'd be a nice landing point there to have a write-up about some You know, some use cases and what it achieved at different places.
Bryan: And so Nick, you know, rightly points out, you know, you would be great if there was one for NASA and you guys are A well-known name. Well, lightning a well-respected name. And so having, you know, a little write-up somewhere about, you know, what you do, which also informs the rest of us, right? I mean, I think, I think a lot of us when we say, Here's, you know, you should use meaning we can have an idea about it in our head, but we don't maybe vocalize it for the rest of the group.
Bryan: And we're, we're probably mostly aligned, but there's a lot of differences.
Rich: So I'm going to drop a link into the chat, which is my application rationalization paragraph. It's dense. It doesn't. It's not an intuitive paragraph, but it contains all the essential hooks for anyone that wants to unpack it.
Rich: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Application_Rationalizations
Rich: And there it
Greg: Is what I do all in front of like a
Rich: Yeah so single source of truth is a big is a big term and a lot of these terms are loaded because you know if
Lex: Mmm.
Rich: you say application rationalization to the uninitiated they're going to argue with you. If you say single source of truth to the uninitiated they're going to argue with you If you say, You know, model-based systems engineering to the uninitiated, they're going to argue with you digital twin digital transformation. These are all buzzwords and these are buzz words that are happening at the CIO level. And so it we just have to understand their language.
Rich: We have to understand the words that mean things to them and use them the way that they mean, you know, like you, you want to sell your product, right? Don't try to tell them that they have to rewire their brain, right? We've got to figure out how to translate to what they care about and know. I'm sorry if I'm speaking. Provocatively and bombastically. It's what I do.
Rich: Sometimes to change to throw a brick through it.
Greg: glass.
Bryan: Well, I've said it for a while but I
Greg: Richer here.
Bryan: feel the The knowledge management aspect. However, it's kind of done is something that most c-suite. People don't know about really, right? Like if you had a consultant come in, you paid a consultant to come into your company. and provide analysis about, you know what you're doing wrong and you had you know you had sales people and you weren't using some form of CRM that
Greg: The "Church of Rich" - complete with stained glass windows :-)
Bryan: would be An obvious, you know, miss and they would tell you right? And similarly you know, if you had a
Rich: KM has a bad name in organizations.. it's synonymous with failures of the 90's
Bryan: bunch of different types of enterprise software missing from your core suite, They would tell you right? And they would easily point you to and array of different solutions that are out there, right? But knowledge management, still to the state, you know, it's like someone some expert leaves the company and that had 30 years of expertise and you're like, well, that sucks, right? And that's just it's terrible.
Bryan: But right now we just think it's acceptable. So, I think we're in a bit of weird spot for the normal.
Greg: Hey, rich, rich Tcp/ip is censoring
Bryan: Most used use case for media wiki and knowledge management in that it isn't a global standard. It isn't something that we think of right now is something that you're doing wrong, if you don't have right. So it'd be great to figure out how to get there. And so, I think we're kind of in this new market. I think the world is kind of turning into it, especially after covid and a couple of other, you know, issues that we're facing with.
Bryan: changing workforce, but Yeah, this is exciting if we can get in. We're getting on the ground floor per se, right?
Rich: There's a big need for what we've got. And the problem is packaging. They really do there. They are dying for what media wiki with extent with all the right extensions cargo page forms. All the, you know, all of the Best features of media. Wiki like like not flex forms. Um, what's the one that does embedded draw IO?
Bryan: Have platform.
Rich: Well, there's flex forms too.
Bryan: Flex diagram.
Rich: Yeah. Flux. Diagrams, that's the one, the ability. So I was thinking about this. There's no shortage of process editors out there, but none of them have version control as text. And so, we've been using flux form ever since created. And again, this is your own does not understand how he has changed the world. Or maybe he does he's humble, I don't know. But like page forms a bit flex forms where not flex forms.
Rich: Um, What, why can't? My I can't use my words. Um, the dining flex diagrams, the
Bryan: Diagrams.
Rich: ability to do to have a bpmn editor. That that treats the edited process as a wiki article. You know where you can do like compare revisions and revision history and all of all of the wonderfulness of the Media. Wiki revision history is available.
Bryan: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Flex_Diagrams
Rich: To process design. That's amazing. And and the, you know, and whether it's the graph extension, I know that somebody from the foundation was saying that the graph extension isn't very satisfying to them, but the various graph extensions that are out there that can visualize data is just phenomenal. So we, you know, we're implementing like, Like non-conformance tools and basically is something as simple as tracking tours. So at NASA, we get lots of requests for tours and we're constantly doing it.
Rich: And the coordinators are scrambling, almost every day trying to pull these tours together and this represents an organizational process of how we, how we handle tours from from the point of request, to the point of delivery is, is an, is something that there has never been an official process for. It's always been this undocumented chaotic circus and we have implemented a wiki-based, electronic workflow. And everyone loves it.
Rich: It is like the it's the thing they can't live without now. And and what's cool about it is is that just like ordering the pizza right or capturing the metrics. Um and we're showing bar graphs on, you know, how many tours or processing per month? How many, you know, whether it's outside industry customers, or whether it's internal, NASA tours, or whether it's general public tours, we're keeping all those metrics.
Rich: And even just in the four months that we've been using this electronic tool. It has, it has become an in a tool that they they would scream. If we tried to take it away from them, it fulfills. A need that has always been needed and there's never been anything in any of the enterprise that none of the none of the enterprise provided services. The sharepoints the file serves, the none of those tools can do can provide this electronic workflow for these organic.
Rich: You know, processes that are unique to to each organization and and then we get to like at the end of the year we get to tell our management and report out you know Here's here's and it looks like an SAP graph. Like it looks like the kind of of a data report that you would get from you know a million dollar software program. so, sorry, that was another
Bryan: This is a quick question. I mean, like, I love all this, It sounds great. I mean, would it just be as simple as Rich having you? I don't know if you can actually, but you know, speak and record yourself. Create a little YouTube. You know video and then have that accessible, there's a write-up a video. You know, I can you mention NASA? I mean, I don't know how that works but
Rich: Yeah, that's the problem for me to create public tutorials on NASA systems is like a legal non-starter. I don't even know how to solve that. Now what I could do is if I can get all of. So these are all things that are a result of templates and properties and forms and categories. And if I can get all that special cool content page content, if I can get all of that copied on to a public wiki where these tools can be demoed live then, and you know, then then I or any of us could do those videos, which I think would be a good. A good goal.
Rich: And so I don't know if the BMW stake website is the right one. I don't know if it's canasta yet if it's going to be canasta. I don't know if it's got all the
Nick: Would you consider an interview?
Rich: extensions that we need Um, but we probably should. we should commit that if there isn't a place, Where people can see these tools in action. Um, then it's going to be a lot. It's gonna be an uphill hand waving exercise. Yeah.
Nick: Okay. Well, you don't have to dive into details, where that may be illegal issue, just kind of high level stuff,
Rich: Yeah.
Nick: essentially, some of the things that you mentioned before. Yeah.
Rich: You know, the best thing to probably do is if if I can present some of this stuff, At a at an internal NASA meet.
Bryan: Just me. That looks like I said, real.
Nick: I think Rich has dropped.
Cindy: No, somebody shut them down.
Rich: The conference easier than I can
Nick: Hey.
Bryan: Rich.
Rich: easier than I can just go off and make videos on a personal YouTube channel.
Bryan: Which you can just stop a second and we lost you a couple times in there and didn't get to just of it. If you could just start again, when you said it'd be easier. If and then
Rich: Oh, it would be easier for for me to
Nick: I'll have to run at 11:30. I wanted to present an idea, just 3 minutes.
Cindy: Somebody doesn't want him to say what he's about to
Bryan: Yeah.
Rich: present on. I can do a live demo and we can have instead of a talk.
Bryan: Hey Rich. Rich.
Greg: your comments.
Nick: He?
Bryan: Yeah, every time, every time it gets to the meat of it. You we lose you and that this is the only time we've lost you so far but
Rich: Wow.
Bryan: it's every time you talk about this exact thing.
Rich: Interesting, I don't know what to say.
Greg: So, the secret is, and
Rich: so,
Mark: Big brother.
Lex: but,
Rich: The, the moon is full, the dogs are barking. The gate is open. Did they censor that?
Greg: No.
Bryan: Oh, let's I'm Nick. You want to present something really quick. Give a rich and then rich can you hold on to that thought? And then try to reset. But Nick, you want to take it over for a second before you have to
Nick: Yeah, thank you.
Bryan: leave.
Nick: Yeah. I I still have 15 minutes but I wanted to make sure I can say so rich. First of all, thank you so much for providing kind of us with the client size. I think that's very important. So we've been talking a lot about what, but I also wanted to spend a couple of minutes and how and I think The best best forwards. One of the things that we should consider doing and So, I'd like to discuss that is maybe getting on board.
Nick: Somebody who can help us with a marketing strategy and I think I might have a candidate that I wanted to run by you. What would be open to working with like a consultant or
Bryan: I would say generally Yes from my side and it looks like your own is you know giving a thumbs up but I think there's a general question just about You know, if there's a cost to it, how does cost get shared and How does you know, marketing benefits get shared if that makes sense. But yeah, I'm
Nick: All right, so I think I think initially it's probably not going to be too expensive just to have a couple of sessions a workshop and that workshop can actually answer some of these questions. So let me share the screen for a second. So, I am thinking I This individual Jeff Robbins. Does anybody know him? So he's been, he's one of the people who are instrumental in making Drupal popular and
Greg: Yeah, I know Jeff.
Nick: Taking him, taking it where Drupal is right now? Who said Kenneth?
Greg: Oh, I just said I know. Jeff Robbins.
Nick: Oh Greg. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So yeah, Jeff, he essentially was one of the people at the early stage of
Greg: but,
Nick: Drupal and then build the company called Lullabot. Which if I'm not mistaken, he's taken to like 11 million in revenue and then he accidentally at some point. So he understands in my opinion, he might understand the issues open so software, the value of it and how to take a platform and and marketed he's done it for himself at some point in the past. And right now he's doing business coaching and mentoring.
Nick: He's also a software developer himself. So he understands technology.
Greg: so,
Nick: and I just thought that, you know, a workshop was somebody like Jeff my answer. Some other questions that we haven't talked about yet. Or the questions of how to implement something to talk about, what would be that the road map of sorts and maybe, well, she might need to get help from. That's all I have.
Bryan: You already have a contact with Jeff, have you?
Nick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjeff/
Bryan: Talked about it at all, or do we know
Greg: I don't know Jeff 'personally', but professionally from following all hist work and accomplishments in the past. Fully endorse him.
Bryan: any kind of what the framework of the discussion would be?
Nick: I had a really brief conversation. I just shared with him that I about my trip to Austin and but I didn't share much so I can I can if there's interest I can reach out and maybe create like an email thread.
Bryan: I'm interested.
Greg: He did some awesome stuff with a lullaby and not only did he create Lullaby but um, everything he did. He would blog about it and make it open and like talk about like what the challenges were. It was like one of the first people to do distributed enterprise and you know distributed remote enterprise and everything. He's a pretty amazing guy.
Nick: Okay, then I'll start an email thread. I guess with people on this call, right? Okay. Cool, thank you.
Greg: Thanks Nick.
Bryan: Rich. Do you want it? Do you want to give it a go? Now, you have been watching your video and it hasn't glitched out. So
Rich: Give what a go.
Bryan: Oh, you had given a talk about how you might be able to maybe present in an internal meeting it NASA and maybe have it recorded. I do. I'm not sure exactly where you're gonna go with it, but it
Rich: Oh, I was gonna say that. What I'd like to do is maybe start talking to the planners of the semantic. Media Wiki conference that will be this fall and focus on maybe a dedicated section of live demos of
Mark: I have to go run some errands. please include me on the email thread!
Rich: what people are. Like, I could do a pre-recorded video maybe and talk to it as it plays. But I think instead of just giving a talk on, you know, reporting out what we've done and having, you know, PowerPoint charts, it might be, it might be better to To just do a, you know, behind the scenes. I don't know, do we want to call it a workshop? Or I don't know what kind of a track it would be.
Rich: But anyway, what I'm thinking is is that if If we could do a live demo, For a conference. that then the conference would record it and make it and host it rather than me trying to record and host. Things on my own. That's all I was saying, is that anything that I do during the conferences? I think I can get you know, if I'm not the one doing the recording and I'm not the one doing the publishing, I think I, you know, that works for me.
Bryan: That makes sense.
Cindy: Just anybody know.
Rich: It's tough. Oh,
Cindy: I'm just gonna say, does anybody know we've had some conversations about the fall smw? Con? That, I'm not sure. Where that's it right now.
Bryan: I haven't heard union of a location for it. For this year.
Cindy: Yeah, location organizers. Who's taking the ball?
Bryan: All I know is I think Bernhard has next year, lock locked in but as
Cindy: Right.
Bryan:
Cindy: The end of 2024.
Yaron: I always threatened to organize a European emw con. So I probably will again this year.
Bryan: What? Maybe that'll. That'll get the
Cindy: Get people moving.
Yaron: I could either way. It's a win-win for me. Yeah.
Bryan: Well, what we have? Maybe seven minutes does anybody have any anything that they haven't talked about? That is related to Medi-wiki marketing that they want to jump in and talk about.
Rich: It not marketing, but a little birdie told me that we were going to talk about moving. The this meeting potentially long-term. And I just wanted to say that, Not for my sake, please. Because I have been able to finagle things and I can attend these regularly now. In the, in the regular time slot, not the one that we're doing today.
Greg: This.
Bryan: That's, it's good to know. I didn't I intentionally I'm gonna stay on a little bit later even though I have to run just to let people on. But I have an expectation that there's gonna be people, that didn't understand that the meeting got moved. So our handling of how that works and how we decimate that information could be improved. But I yeah, I only, I only changed this meeting and I did want to talk about, you know, permanently moving it or not.
Bryan: It doesn't sound like there's a huge preference. We were, we were intending to actually move it permanently just for you and that would have been. We would have been well worthwhile, but If you're able to, you know, attend the regular ones that that's great too. And I won't change. I'm moving forward but I would still like, to talk about a better way to handle distribution of You know, the meeting times so we can all be aligned.
Cindy: As I understand it, I could have this wrong but there is a meeting invite. I know I've got it on my calendar. I think Bryan, you said you have it on your calendar too, but it originated from a mail server that Your calendar server that Mark no longer maintains, no longer that it no longer exists, I guess.
Bryan: Yeah.
Cindy: and so one thing that's going to be an issue is if we ever did want to move the meeting a lot of, or at least the two of us, have an invite on our calendar that we don't seem to have any way to
Bryan: Yeah.
Cindy: Delete cancel or change.
Bryan: And that and that happened last time as well. And I don't know what if it like you can only extend the meeting out in the future, you know, X months and then it just stops but at the same thing happened, so Mark did say that if we can't find a solution that works for the county and you know, male system he has now and switch to Gmail.
Bryan: So I'm I'm all ears but it's just not really working now. So I'll just switch it to
Cindy: So he still he still has access to it. You're saying that he can extend the meeting but he can't cancel it or change it or
Bryan: I have access to the calendaring system as well, but
Cindy: oh, okay.
Bryan: but it doesn't, it doesn't and I haven't actually gone in to check myself but I'm just trusting him but he's gone in and checked it and there is no more. You know monthly meetings in there. So it has run out or I'm not sure what the deal is but it doesn't.
Cindy: And yet it still exists.
Bryan: What? But I mean, we were invited.
Cindy: We're on our calendars.
Bryan: Yeah, yeah. So it's just like permanent on our
Cindy: Yeah.
Bryan: side but but, you know, Gmail does
Cindy: Not on, yes.
Bryan: really good way. And I know some people don't like Google and, but if there's a better system, I'm all yours. I'll try it out, but it should work well, Maybe the last thing I'll say here is a sap or sap has been brought up a few times. And I hate that software with a passion. I think it's the worst software ever created by human being that still exists and then continues to be, you know, a thing that people like look for it.
Bryan: Boggles my mind, I don't think a single person on the planet that knows the product and understands their company. Wipes sap and yet it is. A very successful company and people reach for it all the time. And it comes up anytime you have. I mean, they leech into other verticals as well, like CRM. But anytime you have an ERP request and you're big enough company, it will be on your short list to review.
Bryan: So it'd be great to get media wiki there for all the right reasons but sap sucks.
Rich: for fun, check out: https://getindico.io/ as an alternative to Hopin for future conferences.. I attended a conference after EMWCon and they used it. It was great.
Cindy: My husband uses it at work and it's a frequent dinner table conversation and it's usually not it usually seeped in frustration.
Bryan: It's it is the worst. It's the worst.
Rich: (developed by CERN)
Bryan: It's so bad. It's
Greg: Yeah, and they even have like like an HR module. I think that's that comes from it and it's it's awful.
Bryan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's so bad that we the engineering group that I was in we had to use it for things like zcat is the stupid time recording module and they all have these modules that make, you remember some silly acronym. But For me to put in my time, right? I, it's who I am. What? I'm, what job code I'm recording to and the time that I should be recording, kind of three pieces of information 17 steps every time.
Bryan: And so we just we just created something. I mean was shows that we don't know, we're talking about what we created something in Excel where we would hit a button and it would use VBA to go do that all for us. And eventually I just beg them to say like I'm just writing my own front end to this database. Why don't we just use a different database this thing sucks and that you know it came out of finance and accounting and they control the purse strings and that's what they wanted.
Bryan: So that's what we're stuck with but sap is the worst. I'll leave you with that.
Yaron: There's an elevator pitch right there.
Bryan: Hey, Markus, and he was gonna happen. We did a poor job of. Communicating, but we did a move to the calendar. To talk about marketing media wiki. But we're gonna be returning to the normal time next month, and hopefully have a better Calendaring system to let everybody know. But Markus, maybe it's your turn to give a pitch about marketing meeting
Greg: Most of the conversation has been captured at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/mwstake-2023-05
Bryan: because I know you guys have a Upcoming conference that you might want to talk about.
Nick: Alright, thanks. All I have to run. Bye.
Bryan: I'm Nick.
Greg: By Nick.
Markus: Um, oh, you caught me off? Guard here. Yes. We have. A customer or a enterprise of those bikes meeting next week. We call it was Product A
Bryan: https://bluespice.com/bluespice-product-days-2023/
Markus: Um, and that is about enterprise use of Media key. Obviously the focus on group Spice. Interestingly, I think we have a wide range of topics this time. Normally be focus on Like new features of those price and things like that. This time, there's so many interesting things like you know, ai jcpt or the use of like wikis in the cloud environment, things like that. So it is Very interesting program if you want. I can share the link. Oh, that's here in the chat.
Lex: Mm-hmm.
Markus: Let me just find it.
Bryan: I think I've shared the link to the
Markus: Yeah.
Bryan: product days in the chat there that
Markus: Okay.
Bryan: we're talking
Markus: Yeah, right. so, feel free to sign up and enjoyance free. It has some European transport movies. Also took care that like the more interesting parts are in the afternoon. So people from us can also join
Cindy: The idea mailed Richard about it because I'm going to be on vacation those days. So I won't be able to, but he did say that the videos would also wind up on YouTube, which I was very happy about
Markus: Yeah.
Cindy: because I also want to share them with other folks foundation.
Markus: That's great. And you gotta say priorities. So, holidays is always true.
Bryan: Hey Gergo!
Bryan: So, I'll give the same word I just said Google, sorry, we did a poor job of communicating, but we started an hour early or the normal. And we had a little talk about marketing Media Wiki and there will be a transcript and then some notes on the on the page.
Greg: HISTORY PASTE Most of the conversation has been captured at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/mwstake-2023-05 Bryan Hilderbrand11:31 AM https://bluespice.com/bluespice-product-days-2023/
Bryan: But I have to run, I'm gonna leave the the call here open, so it'll keep transcribing voice to text and I'll try to and do, you know, capture some of the notes later. And then I'll have my phone open for a bit like and let people in the room and needed. But feel free to talk.
Cindy: Diego. Was there any news you wanted to report on this week? This meeting?
Gergo: I actually didn't prepare this week. Sorry. The one thing I can think of of the top of my head is the
Cindy: that's,
Gergo: security issues with graph. So you may have heard that the foundation has disabled the graph extension. Because it had some rather big problems and Those are going to be fixed in a couple weeks, but for the time, being the recommendation is to turn it off if you are using it.
Cindy: It's an I guess I'll get I'll give the same announcement that. Bryan did right before he left. We did a bad job of communicating. The fact that the meeting moved an hour earlier, Oh, he left. So I don't have to announce it. all right, unfortunately, I need to run to
Markus: Yeah, I guess then we can close when we can read.
Cindy: Yeah.
Greg: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to run as well. Um but nice to see everyone. And oh, and then Vincent just joined Vincent, can you hear it?
Vincent: Yeah, I can hear you know I had to rejoin in a different browser. I think my other browser was not having a fun time with us.
Greg: Oh, well, Unfortunately the the meeting had been moved in our earlier, which was poorly communicated.
Vincent: Oh, okay.
Greg: So we were just wrapping up on, um, size.
Vincent: No problem.
Greg: Sorry for that. But there, there is an ether pad that captured most of the notes. There's gonna be some, I think the voice recording might be available later. Um and yeah, most of the Easter pad captured everything that was discussed. So, that's good. And while everyone is about to jump off, did you have anything you wanted to say?
Vincent: Solo, hope everybody's doing well.
Greg: Hi. Oh, and Gergo has his hand up.
Gergo: Yeah, there is a Google calendar for the meeting. I'm not sure who is maintaining that, but it would be nice to get that updated.
Cindy: Yeah, we discussed that beforehand. It is there is a technical issue with that calendar. Invite that I don't understand exactly what the issue is because I don't have access to it but Bryan and Mark were talking about it. Apparently, it can't be. Apparently that the meeting series. For that has already expired and yet it still exists in all of our calendars. And so there's nothing they can do from the source, calendar to cancel it or change it.
Cindy: Or the only thing they can do is extend it and So but the thing is, it exists in my calendar too and in Bryan's. So I don't know how that gets fixed. But that's obviously going to be a problem. As it turns out, we decided that the meeting time is going to stay the same going forward. At least for the Foreseeable future. So we don't need to change it.
Cindy: And I guess, but if we ever do need to change the time again, obviously, that's going to be a an issue. Unless we get everybody to go into the calendar and delete it.
Greg: So someone else, just joined, Dwan Humphrey. The one we were just, we've had,
Dwan: Come on.
Greg: we've had some difficulties with the calendar and scheduling, it turns out that the meeting was actually an hour earlier, and we were just wrapping up sorry for the confusion. If That impacted you. It seems
Dwan: Oh, no problem. Good morning everyone.
Greg: good morning.
Cindy: Good morning.
Rich: 81, Good to see you.
Dwan: Good.
Gergo: Well, it was nice to see all. Even if very shortly,
Cindy: Yes, it was.
Greg: All right.
Cindy: All right.
Gergo: and until next month,
Cindy: I all
Greg: See you next time.
Cindy: See you then? Bye.
Vincent: Alright, you have a good.