Event talk:176

Raw transcript:

Mark: So since we're on topic now

Mark: I I did not have. I did not do my cast, which was. if you look at, I guess the first thing we should do. Sorry the first thing we should do is pull up the the board.

Mark: The project would.

Mark: which I didn't have, but someone else have it up. Do they have a link?

Lex: Hmm.

Eric-Jan: You mean a fabricated board park? Yeah, sure. I have it here. One moment.

Mark: Yeah, I just got it.

Mark: and I see that you have a seat.

Mark: Yes.

Mark: yeah, there it is. Yeah.

Mark: And I see, Eric, you put on the sponsor obligations. Yeah.

Eric-Jan: I kept it really

Eric-Jan: small. Right? So

Eric-Jan: yeah. So i'm not not assigning anything to anyone. And this is, is is the at the beginning of of shaping these tasks, and it's scope.

Mark: I do. You want to go over these? Because I I think that's a good

Eric-Jan: Well, these are the these are the most important sponsor related

Eric-Jan: items from my note of for January.

Eric-Jan: and they, I would say, these speak for themselves.

Eric-Jan: But the question is, are we going to make this a combined effort.

Eric-Jan: So these are all actions, actions related to

Eric-Jan: to to responders in the membership. Right?

Mark: Right?

Cindy: So

Cindy: just looking at the list. Does that mean

Cindy: Well, actually let me click on the tasks because the task is current members and from current members.

Cindy: I see. Okay, yeah, it would be good if the title of the task was more had more

Cindy: detail.

Cindy: Just so we could see from the board what the thing was.

Mark: Oh, I need to log in. Sorry.

Mark: So over there on the other column. Let me go. Look at that real quick

Mark: after I log in.

Cindy: I want to know what grip on means.

Mark: I I think it means, get a grip.

Cindy: Get a group. Okay? Cool.

Mark: Is that right? Eric.

Eric-Jan: Yeah.

Cindy: Cool.

Cindy: So what about our obligation to?

Cindy: Well, the stated obligation of doing a project of so many hours, which I think we said

Cindy: that by hosting the conferences that but at any rate we should be more explicit about.

Cindy: you know, if we're not going to actually do a you know, programming task for folks, you know, basically change the wording

Cindy: of the membership wherever we happen to say that, and also make sure any

Cindy: members that joined under that agreement know that what we're doing is

Cindy: how we're, how we're satisfying that obligation.

Eric-Jan: Well we could. We could rewind the the last one and a half here, and see what we, what we have done or what has been done. and we could.

Eric-Jan: We could also report that.

Eric-Jan: So, Tony, it's only 1 one gold gold member here in the in the Netherlands that would really like to have this update right.

Eric-Jan: and and for for new members we could.

Eric-Jan: we could redefine I I I agree with Cindy.

Eric-Jan: so we could be a little bit more cautious on prom, on promises related to task desks and reports in these texts, and what has been done and

Eric-Jan: things like that.

Cindy: So I don't know whether we want to have a task on on the workboard for that process.

Eric-Jan: Yeah. Task or process, or project, or

Eric-Jan: part of a project.

Cindy: Yep. Umhm.

Mark: I'm: looking at the new members, one says, Make a list of me, wiki stakeholders and inform them on memberships.

Mark: So what I I I I need more details. There. I'm trying to sub. I'm trying to put a summary in the title.

Mark: What is it? What do you? What do you talk about this a little? What are you talking about?

Eric-Jan: Is is that the the 2 7 6,

Mark: the one that says new members? I I can't see the number right now. So

Eric-Jan: yeah. so

Eric-Jan: we don't have a we don't have a list of we. We don't have an overview of the current stakeholders the current members right

Eric-Jan: so step one would be. Let's start with the list of all

Eric-Jan: existing members.

Eric-Jan: and we would also have to have a list of past members

Eric-Jan: that if, for example, we're members, but have stopped paying, or did not renew their membership.

Eric-Jan: So we we we do. We have to have an overview of past and existing members

Eric-Jan: slash sponsors

Mark: members who let their membership go Laps.

Cindy: I was not aware of that.

Mark: I I could check because i'm the only me and Brian are the only ones who have access, I think, to the actual people who are actually paying right now.

Mark: So I I don't know. Should we give you access to that, Eric.

Eric-Jan: Yes, please.

Mark: all right. You can do that.

Mark: So anyway. I'm. I'm trying to think of a good summary here in the title.

Mark: It says new members right. Now, what we're talking about is basically

Mark: it's not about just new members. It's membership renewals. Is that it?

Eric-Jan: Yeah. But yeah.

Lex: But Eric Schmidt, that's a different task, right? That is, that is another task. So so about renewal contact, current and past members for membership, renewal, send invoices.

Eric-Jan: That is, that is another task that's 275.

Mark: Okay, yeah.

Markus: I think it's it's more like it. Get the status of current members that you know what I mean. Like. If if we have a a current member that Hasn't been paying, it has not paid the that use, then the services

Markus: somehow pending, probably, or you know. So we need to to somehow check that.

Eric-Jan: Yeah, you. You would receive a notification or a reminder to renew or to prolong your membership. But I know that we don't send these. So if if you become a member at a certain date, and if you don't, receive notification or a mail 12 months later, or 11 months later

Eric-Jan: this this might expire right?

Eric-Jan: So we're we're we're losing money right? So we have to start up. Really, you have to start up communication with

Eric-Jan: future and existing members.

Mark: So I've updated that to say review status of current labs for new members and notify, I don't know.

Mark: anyway.

Mark: and that that leads

Mark: that leads to the next one, which is renew. Memberships. Get a grip on memberships.

Mark: Publish a list. Okay, so that that one is.

Mark: if if we're just gonna publish a list on who's a member, and that's pretty easy. I can. We can create a link for that.

Mark: So

Eric-Jan: yeah. But but the the list should also contain, let's say, past periods and dates of payment, invoice numbers.

Eric-Jan: sponsorship data. It should really be, let's say.

Eric-Jan: a Co.

Eric-Jan: A little bit of comprehensive data, not only not only a a name and a and so really

Eric-Jan: all data available.

Eric-Jan: So this this might take some work

Eric-Jan: to make a reconstruction of what has happened with past and current members.

Markus: Marriage members.

Eric-Jan: Sorry, Marcus.

Markus: with with member membership management wouldn't that be like they're over.

Mark: Yeah.

Mark: Well, it sounds like more like Eric's talking about a membership management interface.

Mark: you know, a way to expose that information.

Mark: Member.

Mark: So okay.

Mark: I i'm conscious right now that i'm putting and in in in in in between 2 verbs on the on the Task, which means, you know, that's really 2 tasks.

Mark: each with its own thing so. But anyway.

Mark: anyway.

Mark: So okay, you know, actually on the one of these

Mark: other tasks, here are Are we done talking about the sponsor Obligations Court?

Lex: I have a question for Eric Yon at that gold member. Do we have an idea which services he would

Lex: require or yes, ask for?

Eric-Jan: Yes.

Eric-Jan: very concretely. And what is? Yes, we have it. But they they! They do not have a specific requirement on on what project we would be working on, but they just want.

Eric-Jan: They want some communication right? They want some report. They want some some update on progress, and what hours I have been have been spent on. So there's no not a requirement or a wish.

Eric-Jan: They're just the demand for communication.

Lex: Okay? So they don't want to sort of, you know.

Lex: No realize they are 10. No, not necessarily. No, no.

Lex: Okay.

Mark: So what are

Mark: just brainstorm real quick here? What? What? How are we going to communicate that to them? What can we communicate to them

Eric-Jan: by summing up what we've done over the last 18 months.

Eric-Jan: related to, for example, to this project, board. or to. or to other activities that we have been coordinating. having to do with me the Wiki and and pro project-based work

Eric-Jan: right it shouldn't be necessarily on this on this workboard.

Eric-Jan: So we're really flexible on, on, on, we're really flexible on this.

Eric-Jan: But we are not flexible on the lack of communication.

Cindy: right? And that's reasonable. So would would the organization of the semantic Media Wiki Conference like that is certainly far more than 10 h? So I would think that that would be sufficient to satisfy that obligation.

Eric-Jan: Yeah, you're right.

Mark: I if I'm. If i'm not mistaken, Eric, you did a lot of that work right on the organization. Is that right.

Eric-Jan: Yes.

Eric-Jan: if we're talking about the S. And W. Con. Yes, but there's also in the same period. We're talking about 2 S. And W. Cons and one E and W. Con.

Mark: because we're talking about that same.

Eric-Jan: This dates from March.

Eric-Jan: March

Eric-Jan: 2022,

Mark: yes, right.

Mark: 2 e to the Bmw. Cons and one S. MW. Con: Isn't: that right

Mark: kind of okay. So yeah. So it sounds like the people to talk to, then would be the organizers of that which would be you, Brian and

Mark: Jeff? I think

Eric-Jan: you're talking about the upcoming em. Wcom.

Mark: Yeah, I I mean, i'm talking about last year's em. W. Con. Which was. I guess, that was Brian who did most of that.

Mark: If I recall correctly.

Cindy: I think, even just sufficient, the amount of work that Eric and and did for

Cindy: the smugglers in the fall would be enough to meet the 10 h. I I do want to raise one thing, and I've mentioned it in the past, and I

Cindy: saw that it's still the same.

Cindy: It actually it's it's true, for

Cindy: I I couldn't find anything on any of the past emw that's gonna be because some of them do mentioned this media with the stakeholders group as a sponsor.

Cindy: But there's no mention of the media key stakeholders group at all on the em. W. Con conference page.

Cindy: and I know we do. Scott decided not to be a sponsor, not to give money, because it would be silly silly to give money, and then

Cindy: we're paying ourselves, and we get the money back. But as fiscal sponsor of the conference.

Cindy: I think there should be some mention on the conference page of the Midi Wiki Stakeholders group, and

Cindy: there is none, and there has been none in the past. So you know I I don't. I didn't want to just go in there and edit myself, even though we could

Cindy: be bold. But I do think it's important, perhaps, for the conference organizers to go and

Cindy: to add that acknowledgment.

Mark: And you're talking about the current lining as well. Right?

Cindy: I'm talking especially about the one that's coming up that has no mention of meeting with the stakeholders group at all, because we're not a sponsor. but we're not. We're not a paying sponsor

Mark: right? We're underwriting it. But we're not sponsoring

Cindy: exactly, and I think the fact that we're underwriting it with the fiscal sponsor is

Mark: right. So can we put underwritten by is that is that the proper term first of all underwritten?

Mark: And then

Mark: I will ask.

Mark: I will ask the person here who is familiar with accounting. You know what what they say about underwritten by. They're very particular about words, so they would know.

Mark: And but I think.

Mark: I think, Eric.

Mark: what do you think of just as far as communicating with this gold sponsor. What do you think of just providing them with the information that you and Odd did on the

Mark: Smw on there, because that that is a lot, it seems seems to me. Yes.

Mark: all right. Good. excellent.

Mark: I I do want to.

Mark: We we only have like 5 min left. So I want to bring everyone up to date on what's been going on with Wiki Apiary, which is related to MW. Sake.

Mark: because it's on the same server.

Mark: But wiki a period Cindy has been doing a lot of work this past week. She's been working on it late at night and stuff getting getting it to run properly. So you know

Mark: upgrading it.

Mark: Yay, Cindy, Everyone give.

Mark: anyway. So the the

Eric-Jan: great.

Mark: I I think I think that there's that. That's a very visible thing that you know we're that's going on right now. And I really appreciate Cindy's help with that. She's really taking a lead, and just

Mark: it's working better already.

Mark: And she's doing all this. She's doing it. She's a multilingual developer here because she's doing Php. And python. So you know.

Cindy: I'll say that in part of part of the work was done as part. We had a code jam in my team last week, and I decided on doing that as a project. I did some prep work the week before.

Cindy: and then Bill Perkle and I paired on it through last week with a few other people dropping in and out of over the course of the week, but build it a lot of help to. You know. We were both sort of here programming on it.

Cindy: And then I continued working on it over the weekend, because I find it impossible to put something down Once I picked it up, and so it's upgraded to 1.3, 5 now, and the

Cindy: scraping scripts are running necron job and scraping as we speak.

Cindy: So there's still quite a bit to be done, and one of the things that

Cindy: I think we're going to need to do, because queries very often fail on it because of the size of it and the number of properties. I think we need to switch to elastic store as a back end, and I've never done that before. I have no idea how to install elastic store

Cindy: so, and I don't know whether the best way to do it is in a container, or what, and I don't know where we should have it running if we should we have it running on the same?

Cindy: The so if there's anybody that has a passion for a slastic store, and would like to get it up and working for Wiki Api.

Cindy: I think that would be a real improvement to the site.

Eric-Jan: Robots is a is elastic search certified our developer robbies.

Cindy: Oh, yes, that's right. And I had spoken to him about

Cindy: also

Cindy: A.

Cindy: The next iteration of the site would be to basically eliminate semantic media wiki and just have everything stored in slots in Json and indexed by elastic store and search directly for like plastic stored. We had talked about potentially doing a prototype for that.

Cindy: and Eric and I, you know, one of the things we talked about potentially was working on that at the Hackathon in Athens, if you are going to send anybody to the Hackathon, it happens, and if you are, there are only a few slots left, so somebody would have to sign up for it.

Cindy: But it would be awesome to have that as a habit on project, although it's not until the end of May

Cindy: there are only a few slots available still. And, mark you're still planning to go the right.

Mark: Yep. Yep. I have my tickets booked and everything. So i'm gonna be there.

Mark: Do not have my tickets booked yet. Well, Wikimedia has my tickets book.

Mark: does

Mark: I? I'm curious. I I know you said someone in it

Mark: it. Your company has a person, Eric the Marcus. Have you all done anything with elastic store there or

Markus: no? I'm not really. So we I mean, we use the but basically most of the configuration we do is we do to talk, start, and then use it. So

Markus: we we do a lot of operations Experience?

Mark: No, no. But I don't even experience it. Just starting it as Docker would be helpful. Yeah, yeah, that that is very helpful. But I was talking about the elastic search, using elastic as a back end for

Mark: No, okay. I'm curious like, if you've done any of that, because you you played around with.

Lex: No, I'm using newly search. Now.

Mark: Okay

Lex: as a default.

Mark: Okay.

Markus: Anyway, what was that? It's interesting.

Lex: Mealy search is a rust base Al Golia open source alternative, or actually it's Al Golia. It uses Al Golia's instance Search Javascript Library.

Lex: but you can run it locally because Al Golia is hosted. Actually and it's phenomenally fast, and i'm implementing it for the new MW. Steak org page.

Cindy: So yeah, I I there is an awful lot of inefficiency in multiple vectors of of

Cindy: Wiki apiary. It's use of semantic media. Wiki is

Cindy: one of them. It is it it it? It has.

Cindy: Yeah, it has properties for things that you have properties, and it's good, you know.

Cindy: Yeah. There's so much data in there, and

Cindy: it can't keep up it. You know.

Cindy: It just can't.

Cindy: So some some of the

Cindy: efficiency this could be gained by just, you know, limiting the

Cindy: it's use of semantic media Wiki

Cindy: and I don't know we need to throw it out the window completely. But that's very tempting.

Lex: But Cindy, is it slow? On editing the pages as well?

Cindy: It's slow for everything. It's hard to tell what what's contributing to the slowness. It is very slow rendering the pages.

Cindy: and it will often get runtime exceptions, because the query runs out of time. Even, you know, a simple search. you know, which you would think would not be really invoking semantic media with you even.

Cindy: But

Cindy: But when you look at the stack traces there is. There are incursions into semantic media with you there.

Cindy: you know, sometimes rendering a page for an extension or a or a website public key.

Cindy: Just so it's a runtime exception.

Mark: So the one thing that I would say on this is, you know.

Mark: the one thing I want to maintain is the ability to edit information on the Wiki whether that's a storm, whether it's stored in an external store or in on the

Mark: So

Mark: I think we can do that with cargo or whatever. But you know, or even just if we have to write a special page, you know, at the worst well

Cindy: talking, talking

Cindy: with their accounts. Colleagues.

Cindy: The suggestion was, yeah, still very much to be able to edit it within the Wiki. But then the scripts in the back end would write

Cindy: Json 2 slots, and that information that was written into slots could get indexed in elastic store, and then they have their so using the Ws. Slots extension to be able to access the content at the slots, and then using the Wiki search extension to be able to.

Cindy: you know, as a replacement for ask queries that would render things beautifully into J javascript enable tables

Mark: I like, so I i'm sorry I I want to. I I want to make sure that we're not going too long here. But I really I really appreciate the fact that the the pages are even showing up right now. So

Cindy: Yeah, One of the things i'm not sure whether you want to like and re-enable it for people take it out of maintenance now that it's@leastapartofiforgotaboutthatisitwikiaperiod.com.

Lex: Yes, because that that service says it's unavailable with a 503.

Cindy: That's what I was just talking about. Yeah, that's what I was just talking about

Cindy: it. It's got an Ht. Access file, so that only about 5 IP addresses can. Actually so. The maintenance mode is is the fact that it's unavailable for people who are not in the listed ips. What what browser are you using? Because the browsers I use for the HTML rendering of the page.

Lex: I just tried Chrome. I was at a hot, a hotel yesterday, and I tried it from the hotel, forgetting that my IP address was different, and I got the same thing. I got an ugly 503 error. It's in maintenance room.

Mark: Yeah, I did not get the I I it was working for me because I saw the HTML that was being displayed.

Mark: But anyway, I I can fix. That is the Api slow, the action Api

Lex: as well, or

Cindy: see everything is a little bit slow. Yeah. Something. And unclear unclear how much is because of limitations of the Vm. How much is because of semantic media wiki.

Cindy: But but when it actually gets a query failure, it usually in the stack price includes semantic media wiki.

Cindy: and that will j render like the page. You'll see all of the window dressing. But then you'll see in the middle. You know

Cindy: a error saying runtime exception

Cindy: the back end. It's a quick query.

Mark: Time exceeded

Mark: I. I what i'm. I I think i'm gonna You know I I want to cut off this meeting. But I think.

Mark: Cindy, if if if you can stick around and Lex maybe stick around because I don't want to take up markets and Eric's time.

Mark: But

Mark: I I I can fix up the 503 real quick, and then we can talk about, maybe giving more resources to the server, because that you know at least temporarily, you there's not much cost involved for doing that temporarily.

Mark: So. Umhm.

Eric-Jan: All right.

Cindy: Good luck for the 503 mark.

Mark: hey? I know where that.