Event talk:133

Raw transcript:

Eric-Jan: So no right with you.

Lex: know.

Mark: good thing that this wisdom right or else they didn't have some they'd be super violent writers right.

Cindy: Oh, did I missed it the discussion I had heard in the Netherlands that it was bad is everything okay. yeah.

Mark: yeah I heard that I saw there's a video I saw on reddit of the horrible riots in Netherlands, and it was like two or three people walking down the street.

Mark: um I have no idea what's going on, anyway, we should start this by saying hello Bernhard and welcome.

Mark: you've been inducted now and I well I guess that that's a ceremonial is we are your inducted.

Cindy: And I should also say I went ahead and just hit the button and kicked off the recording so.

Cindy: We are recording.

Cindy: well.

Mark: Do you have any words of that you wish to say, of what you want to accomplish here. Yes, i'm very honored.

Bernhard: To be asked the question is, what do you expect.

Mark: From now.

Mark: I expect you to do anything I tell you to do.

Markus: Okay.

Markus: We have that wish list mark would you pass on to new board members.

Bernhard: But.

Bernhard: I would say what I would like to accomplish is.

Bernhard: To to participate in solving the semantic media wiki development issue. Because one.

Bernhard: yeah.

Bernhard: All of them.

Bernhard: Because I have the FT have the impression that, even after talking to professional wiki and they know they were quite relaxed it didn't seem didn't see a problem.

Bernhard: i'm seeing many problems and I don't see them get solved automatically, so I think we should spend some thinking of what to do next you learn just wrote me that he's too busy with other stuff and he cannot do anything at the moment Okay, I mean good for him.

Mark: Since since you're there is obviously something that's bugging you what what is, what is the top issue that you think needs to be resolved aren't that you would like to see people do work on.

Bernhard: But, in general, I would say, I mean there are several top issues.

Bernhard: I think the most top issue is compatibility with media wiki 135 for all extensions that are relevant in our ecosystem, not on the semantic media wiki.

Bernhard: So semantic maturity, by the way, is is ready for that so that's not the problem, so here here, for example, I have personally my experiences I just updated one weekend now to 135.

Bernhard: And the only problem I went into without testing everything that just by just invoking extensions is the semantic glossary.

Bernhard: is not working, which again is maintained by you're in the door, so if he doesn't have time.

Bernhard: We are stuck.

Bernhard: So I think the main priority is.

Bernhard: should be in general, fair and obvious take that we have a set of extensions that we regularly use that is that works in media wiki 135 because it's a long term release.

Bernhard: So so far i'm quite happy with it, because many of many of those work and we need to maybe we need to at least also identify some kind of a.

Bernhard: process for that right, because if i'm testing for example cementing comments or semantic tasks, or whatever you might not test that you might not be aware of a problem so that could be maybe some kind of a some kind of a.

Bernhard: i'm just jumping in a way, you know it could be just some kind of a protocol, where we add you know i've tested this here, and it seems to work fine this not.

Bernhard: I don't know about your your.

Bernhard: authentication extensions that you did I didn't test those because i'm not using them, but they are probably very important also, so I think this should be.

Bernhard: We should have some kind of a of a list of I don't know watched extensions, you know essentially said we care about and that are important to us, and if some of them break.

Bernhard: Because this is what I what i've tried earlier and I failed, for example, now again I could try to write on the semantic media wiki mailing list or semantic glossary is broken, I have some funds to fix it who would be a willing to fix it be.

Bernhard: Who would jump in co founding it, and no one would react in both in both ways, no one would say, I want to fix it, and no one would say I will also pay a little bit.

Bernhard: Part of that, and this is a problem, and I think this needs to be solved, because I mean Okay, if you always rely on some open source.

Bernhard: guys doing stuff or not that's Nice, and if it doesn't bother you too much it's Okay, but if you have, if you have clients who need who need solutions you need to have something that you can offer them, you know I mean and.

Mark: Right yeah um I would say, I would say that what you've said here is pretty much.

Mark: I think we're all in agreement with a be good to have some stability in people, maintaining stuff um.

Mark: Okay.

Mark: Is there anything go ahead, Brian.

Bryan: yeah Bernard What about what kind of reporting or been flagging for.

Bryan: You what you've been working on we've seen that that step kind of captured or.

Bernhard: No it's, not because I mean I just found some box again in page forms and I we report them, of course, but.

Bernhard: But there is no other, other than the backtrack us themselves, there is no overview on.

Bernhard: What are open issues that that need to be solved in order for us to be happy with.

Bernhard: With with the development process.

Bryan: Generally, maybe, people are putting in on the discussion page for the extension on the wiki.org otherwise it's just kind of.

Bryan: knows.

Bernhard: yeah.

Cindy: i'll say I share your concern for semantic media wiki and it had this conversation, also with your own my personal.

Cindy: The the biggest bug you know mark was asking as far as what's the largest concern My biggest concern right now for semantic media wiki is that we've made some changes my team to parse your cash to make it to that you can.

Cindy: Everything has to be serialized double as json not as not using php serialization, and so I started working on a patch to semantic media wiki because there's nobody else maintaining the code.

Cindy: And had some questions about the code and went to your about those questions and he's like now, this was stuff MW James was working on I don't know this code, and so there really is no one familiar with the code to ask to make sure that not breaking things.

Cindy: and get out and.

Cindy: Speaking to both him and Carsten their opinion has been that there's nothing really major work wrong with semantic maybe wiki and things will get fixed as they get fixed.

Cindy: it's really sort of just keeping it in stats you know status quo, but, as you know, and my team is working on, you know real improvements to the media wiki infrastructure and code base.

Cindy: And there are going to be things that need to be updated and extensions that we're trying to do, but if a particular extension doesn't have somebody who's actively maintaining it.

Cindy: It becomes much harder and you don't want to just go in there and poke the code without really being knowledgeable about what it does.

Cindy: And you ruin had said he does not have the time.

Cindy: To do the semantic media wiki maintenance.

Cindy: And that you know and he's also you know, trying to run a business, and you know said well if people wanted to hire him for pay for some of this work.

Cindy: You know, so there is perhaps a financial incentive, but it sounded like he didn't really have the time or the inclination to take on full scale maintenance of semantic media wiki so I say all of that to share your concern and.

Cindy: You know I do think that having us now part of the equation is definitely having us monitor these extensions and test them with upcoming releases media wiki to make sure that they.

Cindy: don't have bugs or to find any bugs in advance, so that they can be fixed, but the next step of that of course is.

Cindy: Getting somebody to fix them, you know, and even if we can take our membership dues and use them to apply to hiring engineers to work on this if we can't find volunteers.

Cindy: Access to you know, they were also finding it very hard.

Cindy: You know, to find people to work on the code so.

Mark: i'm already alright well welcome Bernard i'm not sure that we can solve that problem right now in fact I know we can because we've talked about this before.

Mark: um it's it's a well recognized problem, so let us go on to the.

Mark: i'm going to say the army to.

Eric-Jan: Go ahead sorry if i'm ready to ask the question you probably wouldn't expect it from me right it's all very technical, to me, but I just asked.

Eric-Jan: Internally, so for bernhardt we seem to have a forked version of the semantic last year station without problems, so if we can help you there feel free to contact you think are scary and you.

Eric-Jan: can probably help you with this, so we have a working wiki with the first of 20 glossary without any problems, at one point 35.

Eric-Jan: seems like seems like the beginning of a solution right.

Mark: there.

Mark: magic is already happening.

Eric-Jan: I only have a master in business administration right, so no please.

Bernhard: yeah yeah Thank you, it sounds like a beginning of.

Bernhard: A solution, but it also it also sounds a little bit like part of the problem.

Eric-Jan: Okay.

Eric-Jan: Right.

Bernhard: yeah no.

Eric-Jan: All right. yeah.

Eric-Jan: Because this one is.

Eric-Jan: come up with yeah.

Mark: Why.

Bernhard: Because because there seemed to be Forked versions out.

Bernhard: In in companies that don't get pulled back put on i've talked to Alexander kissing about this, yes, I think a forked version of page forms.

Bernhard: And he's he's actually I think he told me he's actually behind the development but it's just a version that he that works for him, so he has a problem anyway, with keeping up.

Bernhard: With wiki base Netherlands, the solution is probably better I mean that the situation is probably better because.

Bernhard: As i've experienced you have very good developers and the you you're on top of the game, but if you're not open sourcing this this things you know, this is not good not good, I mean it's Nice that I can I can participate, maybe and and profit from that.

Bernhard: yeah, so this is why I say this is also part of the problem, because.

Eric-Jan: yeah it should be back, we don't use what I know is that when we met we embed page forms.

Eric-Jan: So we made, we as form If so, feel free to contact Victor on this as well right.

Eric-Jan: we're here to help you okay.

Mark: um so we have just two items in the agenda i'm going to skip the meeting wiki state membership, the thing that credit card processing and stuff like that, because I didn't get to work on that.

Mark: um but I know first of all that we had worked on on the code of conduct, because I talked to a veto last night, if he to give us an update on the code of conduct.

Mark: don't don't calc read way yeah there you go.

Evita: um you first um yeah so I created the article and the stakeholders site and.

Evita: I think I think the next step is for us to define how those things are going to be handle or who's going to be handling it if it's going to be a community.

Evita: But it needs to be some a place for someone to submit a report anonymously so with confidentiality, so not just on a discussion board or something nita.

Evita: email that somebody can handle and making or some way that they can submit it without really having to say who they are spreadsheets everybody who they are.

Evita: And I don't know the best way to do that because I think even with an email you'll know who it's coming from I don't know if we should know if one person should know who was the person reporting it, and so, if anybody's dealt dealt with any of that before.

Bryan: I got a question, so if it's anonymous.

Bryan: Is it supposed to be anonymous and secret or just anonymous that is like if it was possible to just open one page.

Bryan: Like the talk page on here, where you don't have to be logged in, but you can write something on the discussion page and not logged in I guess would be your IP address them anyway at it if everybody saw it is that Okay, or if it's just wants to go to like one one reviewer.

Bryan: Even though that reviewer doesn't know the reporter.

Evita: To be secret to because that way then anybody can put anything out there and claim anybody did anything and then.

Mark: I think.

Mark: I just my impression of how the the wikimedia handles their code of conduct is that they have a committee who handles the the complaints or whatever, and those people know.

Mark: Who the complaint, the people finally in the complaint are um but, as I understand it, they don't spread that information around um Is there anyone else Cindy do you know more about this.

Mark: Okay.

Mark: um yeah I think.

Mark: So Okay, if I understand correctly, the the issue that we have right now is figuring now, first of all, who gets a report and how they get them and then after that we have to figure out how they're handled Is that correct a reader. Yes.

Mark: um.

Mark: You said.

Mark: there anyone who wants to work with a veto on getting that invigorating those three things out because yeah that if we're going to have this, we need to do have some progress on it.

Cindy: I could ask, I want to say that a mirror server donny at wikimedia Deutschland is on the.

Cindy: Committee for for the wikimedia.

Cindy: Policy and I could always shoot him an email and ask him how they handle that.

Mark: yeah if you could um.

Evita: Any great.

Mark: Alright, and then the other is there anything else, we need to talk that was good conduct, first of all.

Bryan: Is there is there.

Bryan: A group that consists of all board members, or at least one or son and or ordinary Members that we're going to try to form.

Mark: I think that's what we need to decide that I that's I think it would be you know some a board member and some Members who would do that um it does anyone have any other ideas about it.

Markus: Though it probably should not be all board, because if the board harasses someone by not you know, accepting them as a member that needs to be an external person to the board or external group of.

Markus: right outside the board, I mean, I can see that I support your suggestion that we have one personal support in one of outside the board.

Markus: So it makes sense to me I don't think we need like a group of 10 people arm.

Markus: Right, which would essentially be most of nw steak at the moment.

Mark: yeah we'll have.

Evita: 1010, but I think it should be at least three.

Markus: yeah I can go yeah I agree. makes sense.

Mark: yeah and I think only one of those people should be on the board is you know the.

Mark: um so anyway, I.

Mark: Does that make sense, everyone is there anyone.

Mark: Who has.

Mark: All right.

Mark: um The other thing we need to talk about I have not really done any work on this, but we need to talk about because we didn't talk about last week is the media key stakeholder MW state.

Mark: Oregon wiki apiary.org hosting since they've asked they've hinted very strongly that we need to get off of.

Mark: Wikipedia cloud so they can have IP addresses um, we need to look at doing that um.

Mark: Is there.

Mark: I guess I can go do that, but I would like to have someone to work with on that um.

Mark: Because yeah i've been doing, most of the hosting work.

Mark: But I would like to make sure that i'm not the only one, doing the hosting work.

Mark: um Is there anyone else who would like to join me and and maybe we can look at Lynn node or aws or something like that.

Cindy: i'm willing to help with that.

Mark: I appreciate that Cindy Is there anyone else so because Cindy is always raising her hand Is there anyone else who would be willing, I mean I if no one else is, I am very happy to work with Cindy um, but I just want to make sure we're not giving her too much work as well.

Bryan: I have aws if if that choice, if not i'm interested in figuring things out but I don't have any experience anywhere else other than a jerk.

Mark: When you say experience, what do you mean.

Bryan: I just creating machines and infrastructure on there and automated backups and some other stuff like that.

Mark: You have you have just made a compelling case for using your skills.

Eric-Jan: it's just qualified.

Mark: yeah he's qualified.

Cindy: i'm delighted to see the responsibility to Brian.

Bryan: hmm but mine is very happy so that's.

Mark: A that's what mine would be true so very good, very good. data.

Lex: i'm.

Mark: Excellent I think I think that is a and in, mark you need to get to work on this credit card thing you're very busy this week, I know, but you need you need to just you know you can't have excuses like this piling up, you need to get to work, yes, sir.

Bryan: I do have.

Markus: Our if it helps you can you give me some sort of a rough time frame, so you know.

Mark: yeah I.

Mark: Really.

Markus: That is a good point yeah I would really love to sort out this credit card processing because Holloway wants to spend their money on the membership fees so on.

Markus: The first of the.

Mark: Year right okay so let's do that um.

Eric-Jan: What marks Marcus very nice of you to offer help and assistance but.

Eric-Jan: Our my coworker Marina already who did, the first thing and development already offered his assistance to mark so it's right there to grab his his his help.

Mark: No, I think I think the help that Marcus was talking about, though, is help testing.

Eric-Jan: Testing yeah sorry.

Mark: No, no don't worry marines marines helpful, be very good it's just I have not yet sat down and wrote out some stuff and you did make a point that you want it to be very clear what I write him so trying to make sure I do that.

Mark: um.

Mark: let's see is there.

Mark: uh.

Mark: I think I think that's all we have can we meet next week same time same place.

Bryan: I don't actually from the last meeting I don't know if i'm talking about it or not, but ultimately about the.

Bryan: Things that we should be doing for.

Bryan: For the nonprofit and including like kind of our machinery and things related to the bylaws so.

Bryan: I can write up the notes and then discuss it in the next meeting, if that makes more sense.

Mark: yeah that makes sense um that that actually that gives us a very full agenda for the next half hour that we have.

Mark: You know.

Markus: One day, Brian I wonder if we can combine this into one session, like in two weeks or so on this is.

Markus: All sorts of like facilities, we have as an affiliate or maybe do this, we might have since we now have money so talking about financial reports, so I think we that might take over like more than 10 minutes.

Mark: um okay so i'm just trying to make sure that I understand what you just said Marcus are you saying that.

Mark: We should still meet next week, but not have that in the in the discussion okay that makes sense um and we also have the the regular meeting on Friday of next next week, which will try to get to move to thursday's as well um.

Cindy: I think that's it, so we are, we have, did you say we've got a membership meeting next Friday.

Mark: yeah I believe so.

Cindy: Okay, so we should also publicize that to that. Yes, yes.

Mark: Thank you for that reminder as well, so and then we'll figure out.

Mark: I guess, I guess, I can work with you this week, unless unless someone else let's see if, but nor do you want something to do we could give you something to do your new person we can shut things to you.

Bernhard: Yes, I have something to do because Brian already assigned me to task of summarizing my my findings of using hopping.

Bernhard: have not forgotten that but yeah i've had to do that.

Bernhard: The other thing is, I would like to i'm just now, looking around on the on the website.

Bernhard: Is there a easy to find information on.

Bernhard: If I want to try to to get katie set to.

Bernhard: To pay a yearly fee how much would that be and.

Bernhard: I will see the bill.

Mark: button on the front page it says yeah i'm a member. Yes.

Bernhard: I have to fill out something.

Bernhard: Okay, so there's not even see.

Mark: We we probably need to tidy that up some to give a better workflow there that that's a good.

Bernhard: I can feel it in yes, I can do that.

Markus: And Eric yuan was the state of our elevator pitch presentation for becoming members do we is that already like presentable in in.

Markus: The system me.

Eric-Jan: Sure, it was presentable and it's still isn't i'm trying to look for.

Eric-Jan: For something for burner to.

Eric-Jan: To see what the membership, you have two different different forms, but I will sit sorry I just.

Markus: suggested, you can point to that presentation so that's the best behalf I guess. yeah.

Mark: This is yet another another good reason for bringing Bernard online on board here is that we get to review all this, all this information.

Eric-Jan: yeah I will I will send you some some some information around after that, after meeting, right after make a selection for that.

Mark: All right, I.

Mark: Try to keep this to half an hour and we're.

Mark: Half an hour So there we go i'll see you all later. See.