Discuss Board Meeting
Cindy: Years. Wait, did we lose mark.
Markus: There were
Markus: There were two but
Markus: There were two buttons to Click
Cindy: close to each other.
Cindy: Yep. Secondary chili.
Cindy: Is there an agenda and either paid someone
Bryan: I don't think so. I think there's maybe one subject about the credit card processing. And then there's another one that I was going to bring up just about
Bryan: The potential for in person MW con your own was asking me, and I was going to create a form but wanted to get people's feelings about what spring might look like.
Cindy: He reached out to me.
Cindy: It looks like Mark might be back. Mark, are you back.
Cindy: There's no video
Cindy: Wanted to talk
Lex: Or know
Lex: Brian when you mentioned spring. You mean and em W. Yeah.
Cindy: Yeah, rich Evans was going to host in Sandusky but
Cindy: It's not a good time to do that.
Lex: I mean to take another shot. Yeah.
Cindy: Well, that was the original plan when we, when we went virtual was that he would pick it up this year but
Lex: I also think it's probably too early to make plans. Right.
Bryan: So from what I hear.
Bryan: Rich things it's
Bryan: It's too early for Sandusky to redo it. You know, they're in Ohio, but he is willing to go and attend a virtual or an in person conference elsewhere in the US. So
Cindy: I mean, you read, you read was saying, it would probably be just your own rich and you bread.
Bryan: Yeah, well, so I actually, I would be I would be 100% in to do that but
Bryan: Your own asked me to create a you know a forum to send out to some people pre conference attendees and whatnot, to see their appetite for
Bryan: In person, you know, conferences, the beginning of next year. Yes, the US other thing I told him is, as you know, right now, the US has has another spike of cases.
Bryan: And I don't know what the future looks like so.
Lex: My tie reenact the this cross Atlantic idea again of Iceland.
Lex: It would be then a truly balance us European conference because I think
Mark: You could
Mark: Learn what is the relative cost of Iceland.
Lex: Well I well it could be a lot cheaper now because of the general situation.
Lex: You know, I mean, I know it's known to be very expensive, but that might be different in spring.
Cindy: And regular question Elsa is what kind of travel restrictions there might be exactly
Cindy: Exactly. There's no way to know. Yeah.
Lex: But, uh, yeah. Exactly. We don't know. So it's totally hypothetical at the moment, it's too early to call
Cindy: Yeah, and he and he was also talking about March, which could almost feel better if we were talking like, may we might know
Cindy: Things better and it was a little warmer, but that's
Bryan: That was my recommendation, when I was talking to your own is you know as late as possible. Suzanne, you better
Cindy: And he asked me if I would be program chair again and I said I really thought there should be term limits on that position.
Cindy: Somebody else take the opportunity
Mark: That's a good way to duck out
Bryan: The sad thing is, is when you just you're really, really good at something.
Lex: Everybody wants to
Bryan: Be on it.
Bryan: But, but it's a fair point. It's a lot of work.
Cindy: Especially after last year. Last year was a global network so eager to do
Cindy: What yet.
Cindy: Especially since I suspected it might wind up virtual again.
Bryan: I was just gonna say I think regardless if it's all virtual melt will probably be the virtual component. Right. And that seems like a winning
Bryan: Combination, even if we're mostly going to be there right to have that offer that's you know well
Cindy: Yeah, I'm thinking in the future. We do want to have a virtual computer component to that we can have a broader
Mark: Regardless um so I I dropped off. I apologize. I hit the do not record me button by accident. So kicking off. It's like, yeah, fine. You're not saying, um,
Mark: Anyway, uh,
Mark: So, um, one thing that I want to talk about today, if it's okay, move on from the conference.
Mark: Is anyone hear me.
Markus: Yes, true, I hear you. It's good.
Mark: Okay. Um, yeah. So moving on from the conference which yeah that's that's
Mark: A conversation, um,
Mark: We need I I have the
Mark: finance person for for wiki base is hounding me asked me when we're going to pay him and they have actually ponied up their money.
Mark: Art or they're ready to because we have to figure out how they're gonna pay us because I'm not sure you can do a swift tramp. Well, you can do a swift transfer to bank of america i don't know how so
Mark: That's all administrative stuff.
Mark: But what I need my dude.
Cindy: I'm not sure we short of being able to pay them.
Mark: I think it's $700
Mark: I would like what I was hoping to do since we do have some of this credit card processing working. We don't, we're not, we have the individual level set up, I believe.
Mark: Brian I went over last night. Um, I believe we have the Donate amount that you know you can a one time donation thing you can do. Um,
Mark: But we don't have the gold, silver and all that levels taken care of. Yeah, it's not. It's pretty buggy that. Um, so what I was hoping is I could
Mark: I could get you guys
Mark: Cindy Lex and Marcus to
Mark: start chipping in because Brian and I have already contributed a lot and so we need to get this next let's say $1,000
Cindy: You'll recall the last meeting at the last meeting I did and the money left my account. So you should have the one
Mark: You're right, you're right. I agree.
Mark: You're you you have also contributed and
Cindy: I had committed to doing 500 but I could only figure out how to do 100 and I'm looking at the MW steak page now and I just see become a member. So where is the donation. So
Bryan: On the answer that Emily, maybe a quick point. So, you know, we are only really asking for the individual membership anything beyond is just, you know, would be really nice. Right.
Bryan: But if if you're not logged into MW steak right now that that button will say become a member and it'll prompt you to log in. Once you're logged in, it reads your status and if you're logged in user, but
Bryan: Are not at MW steak. Remember
Bryan: That it will say become a member and it'll be a page to kind of direct you through to that. And then if you already are a member just logged in and leaves you so
Bryan: Take a look.
Cindy: I'm logged in. Now, and I see change membership is that where I would donate
Bryan: Well, so yeah. If you click on that button. Now it takes you to a page where you have the option to either cancel your membership or become a corporate sponsor.
Mark: So I don't believe we have the A button setup yet, for there is a page, but I don't believe we have a button setup for, you know, just
Mark: Amazing contribution, um,
Mark: But I do want to go over there, you know, once or twice with you, Brian, to make sure that it's working. But if, if we can get that working and make sure it's working, then
Mark: Can I, can I reach out to you send the and legs and Marcus to, you know, help get us over this hump of the money to that we owe WikiLeaks.
Lex: Yeah, okay.
Markus: Sure. Of course. I think I already said, I might do it. I forgot. Now I would take a note on my super important to do this so
Mark: Yeah, I'm Oh by the way, Marcus, we didn't
Mark: It is is hello belt going to have any sort of corporate membership or whatever.
Markus: I'm loving for it at the moment.
Markus: Okay, so I just yes we will have some kind of membership cover a membership.
Mark: Okay. Um, yeah, that and anyway. So I think that's the main thing that I have that I was worried about this, this bill from wiki base and trying to get that taken care of. It sounds like as soon as I can, is Brian and I can make sure that the
Mark: You know the freeform donation thing is working that that's all clear. So I appreciate all that, um,
Mark: That that was my big concern for this meeting. Um, we can go to the next and and you know I've been there's been a lot of stuff going on. So I haven't had time to
Mark: Focus on a lot of other stuff.
Mark: So anyway.
Mark: Um, is there. What, what are the business do we have Brian because I'm just
Mark: I'm, I'm sorry.
Mark: Not being very focused here.
Bryan: I think the only two things on the agenda that I knew about was em W con which we talked about and then both credit card processing and you know as an update and
Bryan: And then the bill from from wiki base. So with the credit card processing, Cindy. You know, you kind of poke around a little bit and had some questions.
Bryan: If all of you guys can take a look at it. The buttons and when you're logged in and not logged in, if it makes sense when you click buttons. Does it take you to the right place and You know, we're so
Mark: right in. And what I would recommend is is the way we have this setup right now just so it's clear is that you have to have an individual membership before you can have a corporate membership.
Mark: And then the corporate membership is build it is separate thing in this is just, it's still not completely debugged and everything. So that's why you know I'm asking you all to go to the
Mark: Donation instead of the corporate membership, but once the corporate membership is set up the way it's designed right now is that you'll have to subscriptions, one would one would be the corporate and one would be the the
Mark: Individual if you make a yearly payment, it's probably not that big a deal.
Mark: But if you do a monthly payment your build you know twice for the total amount. So it'd be like 10 bucks for the individual less than 10 bucks. And then, you know, whatever. For the corporate
Mark: So anyway, I just want to make that clear. It's a little confusing them. I'm sure it could be simplified, but that takes more programming.
Bryan: Yeah, not that. Just to clarify that. That is what we were talking about right like to be a corporate member, you have to have an in at least one individual member
Mark: Operation and
Bryan: Right now to do that. It's two separate transactions. Yep.
Mark: Thank you for saying that makes more simply than I just
Cindy: Gonna just make an additional donation. I could
Cindy: Write you radically become a corporate member, but I know I'm not really a corporation, but
Cindy: I see the lowest amount, there is $250 I could throw in another $250 if you want it will be my own Corporation
Mark: No, no, I think, I think for you. It'd be, you know, the end of the donation thing makes the most sense. So even, you know, let's not worry about the corporate thing for you unless you want more votes.
Mark: And then, and then
Cindy: Hey there, but it's always good.
Bryan: I like to hear people's opinions about this. But do you think that there's gonna be people that might want to become members or corporate sponsors or donors.
Bryan: And not be recognized and such. So we're talking about creating the page where it lists all of the individual membership.
Bryan: corporate sponsors and their sponsorship level and donors and their donation amount, but presumably. There might be somebody out there that wouldn't mind giving money but doesn't want to be recognized. Do you agree, so you know should, should there be a questionnaire.
Bryan: On this form to prevent them from showing up.
Mark: I've already talked to Brian about this so y'all. Y'all need to chip in
Markus: I think that is perfectly conceivable that you have, like, people who like to donate because they want to
Markus: Get a certain thing from the stakeholders, or, you know, support certain purpose, but for whatever reason they don't want to be mentioned or
Markus: You don't hear me.
Markus: So I guess there are reasons that some especially the corporation's wouldn't want to be mentioned. Yes, they do not officially support.
Markus: Good things in the world. Open Source or some other kind of
Markus: Of reason right
Markus: So I think it should be possible. I wonder if I would actually create them. So,
Markus: When you create them. It's like, hey, we know you might be ashamed of being part of the end up mistake.
Markus: But I don't know. So I mean, if there's a checkbox, why not
Mark: So, um,
Mark: To, to really bring this point home. The reason that we kind of
Mark: We had not really thought our high I had not really thought this through, um, but we keep base did the their finance person did come to me and say, hey, where's your page where you live, sponsors. So he said, we had to say, oh, well, we're working on that. So,
Mark: Anyway, that's why this comes up.
Lex: So Mark, the bronze change membership that works.
Mark: It did you try it.
Lex: Yeah, I'm just trying it. Now I have to type in my credit card again.
Bryan: So it actually hold on a second. Mark Is it still in test mode.
Mark: No, it's not. I took it out.
Lex: So I can, I can do the change membership now.
Mark: You should be able to actually if it's in test mode, it will complain about a valid credit card, you'll say you're using a valid credit card. We're in test mode.
Bryan: Yeah, so the thing lacks about the setup right now is it should work with the individual, it should work with
Bryan: Ron's there's some little things that just don't look quite right. For example, if you if you did.
Mark: One time
Bryan: Some of the texts like it might indicate that it's monthly, and then your email will just be a kind of a pretty blank. You know you did this thing.
Bryan: But, but we can generate a better invoice for you if you want to record your business or whatever.
Lex: Yeah, I can show it doesn't work at the moment.
Mark: It says, Could you share your screen, so we can See
Lex: Do you see
Bryan: Yeah, can you and unfortunately this is another page that has an era where there's no start at the top, but, um, can you just go ahead and click on the homepage and then click on that button again and it should say change membership.
Lex: You mean go back to the main page. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan: And then click on that change membership.
Bryan: So it thinks. Whoa, that's interesting.
Mark: Let me go, well, you know, the records don't
Mark: Show up on the site for an hour or two later, so I can look at their so
Bryan: But it it does think that you're a bronze member right now.
Lex: Yeah, exactly.
Lex: It because the next one would be silver
Lex: So that must have worked
Mark: Yeah, something work.
Mark: So I'm gonna have to look at the logs on the site. I
Mark: One thing I did not put in my specifications, because this is the first time ever really written out specifications like this is, is, you know, a lot of this feedback stuff so
Mark: It's unfortunate. Unfortunately, his original code takes you to a page like that just says something went wrong. I had to change that. I thought I fix it for all of them, but obviously I didn't, um,
Mark: But their logs, where I can go looking to see what happened.
Mark: Word said ever did.
Cindy: For the different membership boxes on mine.
Cindy: It's just got a green school rectangle
Bryan: Always On, on, what are you talking about the the unchecked box and then the checkbox city.
Cindy: Yeah, on mine. It doesn't have anything inside it look like Lex had some sort of icon inside of the box.
Bryan: Yeah, so, um, I guess, Cindy is you are not even logged in.
Cindy: If you were to log into I am
Cindy: You are I logged in and I'm looking at that same screen and it has the boxes. It has logged in, which is a a green rectangle that Tolo in the middle. It's just, you know, where's it looked like Lex had some sort of icon.
Bryan: That was bizarre. So I am using it for that and Lex the icon that looks like what's had was what I thought would be incorrect. I'll show my screen to show you what I thought it should be. But, uh, maybe it's some kind of fun pack that I'm not getting here.
Cindy: I can show you mine after Yeah.
Bryan: I think, I think you can share yours.
Cindy: Can you see that
Bryan: Interesting. Okay.
Bryan: I'll have to pick up and use a different
Bryan: Icon. Yeah. So it's, it is different in that
Bryan: It's green. When it's supposed to be.
Bryan: You know, a check, but
Bryan: The icon. I'm on mine is an actual checked box.
Bryan: So does anybody have a recommendation for that that
Bryan: Looks like that icon isn't showing up. Right. It's just an HTML symbol. I'll be
Cindy: Looking at the code. I don't know.
Cindy: There is one other topic I wanted to talk about briefly. Before
Cindy: I see marks lips moving, but I don't hear anything. Is he talking
Cindy: He's barely muted.
Cindy: lips moving Okay.
Cindy: I'm gonna go ahead and talk then
Cindy: So the other thing I wanted to mention. And I talked to mark about this briefly is the state of semantic media wiki.
Cindy: So MW James stopped.
Cindy: responding back. I think may 10
Cindy: And nobody's heard from him since. Carsten has reached out to him and he has not responded
Cindy: You ruined his taken over your into da has taken over maintenance.
Cindy: To some extent, but he said you know he doesn't have very much time and he doesn't have the financial resources. And so, you know, if he were going to
Cindy: take more time working on semantic media Kiki born to be compensated in some way.
Cindy: As some of the work that I'm doing right now helping out a project where
Cindy: They're making some core changes and we're trying to update all extensions that would be affected by that change.
Cindy: I've submitted a patch to semantic media wiki and all of the tests fail and it's unclear like unrelated to the patch.
Cindy: They die fairly early on in the CI process. I'm not sure if it's because of the fact the composer has been upgraded to 2.0 which I know has been wrecking havoc for some things
Cindy: So I just wanted to, you know, sort of like the doomsday scenario that I've been concerned about for a while.
Cindy: Is seems to be coming to pass MW James has been gone for six months now and has, you know, people carstens reached out to him and he has not responded so I don't know what might have happened.
Cindy: And you know, I wish him the best but
Cindy: There are a lot of people that use in it. Like, there's a whole semantic media wiki conference coming up in just a couple weeks.
Cindy: So I guess I'm wondering what the stakeholders group.
Cindy: Position might be on this.
Cindy: And Alex, are you involved in the FM W con organization this year.
Lex: Will be off. No, no, no.
Lex: That we we just kick the can down the road. Right.
Lex: And now we're here. And I think the only we can talk a lot, but the only way forward, would be to have the subscription model.
Lex: And everyone who uses
Lex: Of you has to pay something. And we can ask your room, how much you need per month to maintain and it comes up, let's say 3000 euros, we divide 3000 euros by 100 and we ask. Yeah, I mean, you know, we can talk a lot, but at the end of the day. No, I. That's it.
Mark: Yeah, I CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME. Yes, I can hear you now.
Mark: Um, first of all, thank you Vito for because I just noticed you're on here. And when I went to look look the logs. I saw that you had signed up for an individual membership. So thank you, um,
Mark: I was going to look at the other stuff. But anyway, I want to get back to what you were just talking about with semantic media in continuity, um,
Mark: So if someone had want if someone needs $3,000 a month, which I think is completely reasonable to take on the maintenance of have some semantic media wiki.
Mark: If you divide that up between
Mark: 30 people well that's $100 a month if you divide it up one 300 it's $10 a month, um,
Mark: Would that be something that you all think would be possible, would be to get 300 people
Mark: How many people are attending this thing in the fall.
Cindy: Over 15 years the last I'd seen the tweet going out that they've gone past 50
Lex: I think we have to talk, the guys into paying who use that commercially
Cindy: Absolutely. That's the end. And there's no
Lex: There's no proper logical reasoning, other than you are consuming value. And that's why we have to pay the person who
Lex: Provides that
Cindy: And the reality of the situation is because media wiki reduced the development continues to move forward. You know that the patch that I was trying to get in.
Cindy: Semantic media wiki will break if if it doesn't go in and so if there's not somebody actively actively maintaining it. These people who depend, whose businesses depend upon semantic media wiki.
Cindy: Eventually will no longer be able to continue to do business on top of it. So that's, that's really, you know, a
Cindy: Very real scenario and not to sound alarmist, but you're just trying to get this patch in I have questions about the code and there was stuff that MW James did in March that I had questions and asked you ruin about. And he's like, I have no idea. So
Cindy: The person was like the primary technical person right now doesn't even have the
Cindy: Familiarity with the code to be able to answer some basic questions.
Cindy: And I think he would be able to come up to speed very easily. Absolutely. He knows the code, he does what the intent is. But
Cindy: It would take time and it would take resources.
Mark: And he saw MW.
Mark: MW James did right seem to be making some significant changes right before he disappeared and that is like they look like they're starts into good things. But, you know,
Mark: Now he's not here.
Mark: So i i don't know i do we asked for a lightning talk or whatever at the SM W economy and say, hey, we're in this dire situation you use semantic media wiki, you need to start ponying up money.
Mark: To support it and
Mark: I mean, it seems like that's what we need to do.
Cindy: Marcus Richards, the program chair right
Cindy: The General Chair.
Markus: Yeah, I think so. Um, so I can see him this evening, so I can talk to him about it.
Markus: I mean the funding thing. I like that idea of at least setting up some sort of donation based thing but
Markus: The point is that is not something we can set up quickly. For one thing, so you remember how long it took us set up and have a stake as a processor
Markus: And also, I don't know if that's a good way forward.
Markus: So that would mean we would we would need to hire your own for the next five years or so, because otherwise we just postponing the problem and
Cindy: And then we also need to actively work on expanding the base of people who actually
Markus: Understand that yes, we
Cindy: Have a different single point of
Markus: Failure. Exactly. So I was more thinking about a scenario where maybe we could get
Markus: A few more entities to jump into the code and and be actually able to work on the code or, you know, have another main set of truth we maintain us instead of
Markus: Paying one creating another single source of
Markus: Failure right
Cindy: Yeah, absolutely.
Mark: So, that that is a that is a sort of thing that organizations need to collaborate together on for example wiki hello Veldt uses semantic media wiki. I think wiki base uses semantic media wiki.
Mark: I'm not sure about that, um,
Mark: And media wiki stakeholders. So organizations need to collaborate and maybe
Mark: You know, we need to have an entity. We could use media key stakeholders, maybe to do this, but they need to start gathering people in, you know,
Mark: figuring all this out.
Markus: Yeah, so
Mark: And, and, you know,
Mark: I guess what I'm we really need someone who's going to drive this
Mark: I think
Mark: I don't know who we would choose for that.
Mark: I actually actually I get. Think about this. And I thought, you know, we need a program, our Product Manager. That's why I thought I mentioned this to Brian and said we need a product manager Carsten would be a great product manager. So I don't know if that's you know anyway.
Lex: Now, but the problem is always the money you know
Mark: Exactly, yes it is.
Lex: It is as soon as you have a reimbursement, you will find the
Mark: Oh, yeah.
Markus: You know I'm
Markus: Being in the process of hiring a developer, I would not totally agree with you. So even if there's money. We need you need people that are skilled or are we need people that do have a drive behind it like
Markus: I don't think we can set up like a big project manager leadership relationship to developer. So I mean, your own would be a good person to to do this, but don't forget your own is also an entry of media key media Germany, Georgia.
Markus: And he i think it's i don't know i
Cindy: He was not
Markus: I thought he, I thought he was
Cindy: Doing professional wiki full time.
Cindy: I could be that could be 100% wrong.
Markus: I could be 100% wrong.
Cindy: But I thought I had heard that.
Cindy: To somebody who made it incorrectly.
Mark: He is not with he is not with
Mark: As far as I know, he's not with wiki mean we can be you doin chillin dis
Cindy: Ease it wasn't till about six months ago, but my understanding is, is not any longer.
Cindy: But, but, again, my, my, my information about the not any longer could be incorrect.
Mark: When it's been up
Markus: To date, and my information i don't i don't stalk your own so I you know I did not really follow that. And I didn't hear he left. But that does if I know
Cindy: That wiki while he was still at which we comedian Deutschland.
Cindy: I don't know, you know, any reason why he would have left it but I heard that.
Markus: Well, in that case, it's easier because if if we could just hire professional wiki and he is like the developer there that's that's an easier way because that's an organization which might have an interest of heading up on one person.
Cindy: But if we if we do want it to be a healthy open source project. There were also have to be volunteers who are interested in spending their time working on
Cindy: It's just part of this, you know, measure of health of an open source project.
Mark: So what's the next set to
Cindy: Market Marcus could talk to Richard and see whether this could be a topic of discussion at summit SM W calm, where you're going to have the largest concentration of people who care about semantic media wiki.
Markus: I mean, it's always hard to to bring up a topic that says we have seen MW genes in six months, but
Markus: We could, you know, you could try get us a lot of like the sustainability of meat.
Markus: Of semantic Nikki and then
Markus: will naturally come up
Cindy: Yeah, I agree. I agree that talk shouldn't be focused on MW James, it should be focused focused on the future of development.
Mark: So okay, so that's your action item is talk to talk to Richard and get that on the on the schedule. Right.
Markus: Yeah, and so I not forget it already contacted him in a messenger. So he
Markus: He will probably awesome Excellent.
Cindy: I wouldn't mind having a short break before the next meeting.
Mark: Yep, let's
Mark: Call it here.
Markus: One is in Google right yeah I think so, yeah. Okay, wonderful.
Cindy: See you all there by
Markus: People see you in a few minutes. Bye.